World Cup 2006

[carcajou]

did anyone realize that france got all the way through the knockout rounds without scoring a goal from play?

1) You're wrong. Zidane scored from a real action against Spain, so get your facts straight before talking non sense.

2) France knocked out Spain (3-1), Brazil (1-0), Portugal (1-0) and was much better than Italy in the final (in particular in the second half and extended time). I think this is a very hard way to the final (unlike Italy, who should have lost against Australia, did well against a very poor Ukraine and had A LOT of luck against Germany). Italy might be the winner in the records, but after seeing the final yesterday and the way Zidane was sent off (since when is it allowed to use video footage to give players a red card....), the way Vieira got injured, France is the winner in my heart.

[FlaFlu]

You could say the same about Italy.

At least there are tons of good reasons to hate Italy. France is known neither for his cheaters nor for his divers.

In the past, yes. But this tournament we haven't seen any more cheating or diving from Italy than we have from other countries. As a matter of fact, we saw more diving from the likes Portugal, Holland, France, Germany and Argentina than we saw from Italy.

[aveslacker]

Man, that was one hell of a headbutt!

[aveslacker]

In the past, yes. But this tournament we haven't seen any more cheating or diving from Italy than we have from other countries. As a matter of fact, we saw more diving from the likes Portugal, Holland, France, Germany and Argentina (or, sadly, the Dutch group of Robben, Kuijt, van Persie and van Bommel) than we saw from Italy.

I don't agree. When the French were ahead towards the end of matches, you never saw them pick up phantom fouls and roll around in agony like Portugal, Argentina, Mexico, Ghana, or Italy. That, to me, is one of the least sporting things one can do on a football pitch. There are plenty of ways to kill the clock without resorting to such cynical tactics.

You'll never eradicate diving, just like you'll never eradicate fouling from the game. But to say that "everyone does it" is beside the point, and not entirely true. It is also a weak excuse. Some teams do it more, and more blatantly than others. It is a stain on the game and something needs to be done about it.

Sepp Blatter doesn't see what the big deal is -- he is too busy to care, and besides, he used to do it himself. But that doesn't mean that the amount of diving, time-wasting and other cynical tacts can't be minimized significantly, just like the tackle from behind has been.

Other people on these boards have come up with some good solutions, but I'm not holding my breath for the current regime in charge of FIFA to change anything.

I would love it if, one day, when someone goes down with an injury late in a game when his team is up by one goal, that person is actually injured.

You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one.

[FlaFlu]

You obviously haven't read much of the Dutch sections on Ajaxtalk. I'm one of the members who has been most disgusted by divers this tournament. All I'm saying is that in my opinion, people are judging the Italian team unfairly, mostly because of prejudice.

I've heard people say that they've played defensively and unsportingly and in my opinion, neither one is true. Italy haven't had much more luck with the referees than any other country either.

[aveslacker]

You obviously haven't read much of the Dutch sections on Ajaxtalk. I'm one of the members who has been most disgusted by divers this tournament. All I'm saying is that in my opinion, people are judging the Italian team unfairly, mostly because of prejudice.

I've heard people say that they've played defensively and unsportingly and in my opinion, neither one is true. Italy haven't had much more luck with the referees than any other country either.

Fair enough. My complaint wasn't necessarily against you, but against the general attitude of "everyone else is doing it, so what's the big deal." But I can't agree with you about Italy not having any luck with the referees. What about the Australia game?

In any event, you're right that Italy has not been the only team guilty of it. But they, like several others, have prospered by cheating.

I personally think that Portugal were the worst offenders, being almost comical in the way they tried to cheat.

[FlaFlu]

Yes, there was the Australia incident (although I still think Neill was an idiot for going down and raising his arm towards Grosso's leg). One of the few incidentes where an Italian player took a dive, surprisingly.

Italy got lucky there but they were less lucky with the straight red card for Materazzi in that same game, in my opinion. They also had a very harsh penalty call against them when Malouda took a dive in the final, don't you think?

See, when you look at the whole of the tournament, the Italians weren't that much better off than most teams. Most of the big teams (Germany, Brazil, Portugal, England, Argentina, Spain, Holland) have caught lucky breaks during the world cup (I can give you examples if you'd like).

[aveslacker]

It's always true that teams need some luck to win the tournament. I totally agree with that. But as far as diving goes, and manipulating the officials, the Italians did it, and it got them past Australia. FWIW, I didn't see the final, so I can't comment on the act that led to the French penalty (I was having a picnic at a local winery with my wife -- a much better way to spend the day).

Sure, they're not the only team that did it. But, applied at key moments, it sure helped them win the title.

The sad thing is, as you said, this is also true of the other semifinalists. This is why it is up to FIFA to do something about it. The players themselves won't because it wins them games.

[FlaFlu]

It's always true that teams need some luck to win the tournament. I totally agree with that. But as far as diving goes, and manipulating the officials, the Italians did it, and it got them past Australia. FWIW, I didn't see the final, so I can't comment on the act that led to the French penalty (I was having a picnic at a local winery with my wife -- a much better way to spend the day).

Sure, they're not the only team that did it. But, applied at key moments, it sure helped them win the title.

Not "they", but Grosso applied it at one key moment, to get them past Australia within regular time. But who was to say that Italy wouldn't have taken care of Australia in extra time or after penalties. I'm not saying it wasn't decisive, but I don't think you can say they're not deserving champions because of that one big moment. There's a pretty good chance that they would have still made it through either way.

The biggest divers I have seen have been many Portugese players and many other individuals (including Robben, Grosso, Van Bommel, Henry and Ballack).

[Venezuelan Ajacied]

I think the problem with this World Cup is simply that the best team did not win, plain and simple. In my mind the two best teams had to eliminate each other in the quarter finals: Germany and Argentina.
If you take a look a i Italy it is just a case of every peace falling together to make them World Champions, it was said that they were in a dificult group well they did not play very well against Ghana but they won (classic italian football) they struggled against USA in a game that could have gone either way and finally beat an injury plagued Czech Republic (with ten men) to qualify, then they got the easiest of games ahead of them(Australia and Ukraine or the Swiss) until the Semifinal. They got a bad call against Australia and had to resort to Diving to win the game and then face a team that had lost already 4-0 to Spain, still Italy struggled... yeah they won 3-0 but people forget the ball cleared twice off the line and the couple off strikes to the post the Ucranians had before surrendering the second goal. Then came the Semifinal and this y must say was a when italy finally showed what they are capable off and yes amazingly so they played very well and fought hard for the victory, that was agame neither team deserved to loose but Italy came up top i'm not fighting on this one.The final was in my opinion very equal, both teams could have won also but the azzurri scratched the victory in PK. Are they the champions ??? Yes. Are they THE BEST team in the world ???? Dont think so... What would have happened if Italy would have had to face say Brazil or even France(like Spain) in the second round things would have been very diferent. I just think Italy got a Golden chance with the way they were set up, they only needed to play well in a couple of games too win the cup and that was exactly what they did, for that they need to be given some credit they used every single trick in the book, had luck on their side and were efective when they needed to be, because of that they are the champions.

PS: One things for sure Italy are no Brazil, no team is afraid of the current champion.

[FlaFlu]

I disagree with you on a few things, Venezuelan Ajacied.

For starters, Italy played very well against Ghana. The thing is that Ghana surprised anyone by playing that well and that might be the reason people overlooked the Italians, but they also created a good amount of chances and played good football.

Against the US they played their only definite bad game. It might have been because of all the red cards and the hectic situation on the pitch (same thing seemed to have happened during Portugal-Holland).

Against the Czech Republic Italy stood tall and took care of the Czechs quite easily. They ran out deserving winners without really giving away too many chances and playing solid football. They impressed me during that game.

Then there was the game against Australia, which could have gone either way up untill the moment of the penalty kick. But who is to say that the game would have gone Australia's way in extra time or during the penalty shootout? Italy had more quality and experience than the Aussies and I would have given them a great chance to take care of Australia either way. A pitty we didn't find out how that game would have normally ended though. Thanks to stupidity from Neill and girlish play by Grosso.

In the game against Ukraine Italy showed us some great attacks and didn't play all too defensively, looking at those couple of big chances for the Ukranians. But other than those chances, Italy were the stronger side and showed good stuff to progress through.

The game between Italy and Germany was one of my favorite games of this World Cup. Italy completely dominated the first half and the ten minutes after with about 63% ball posession and by applying good pressure on the Germans. The second half the Italians did what we've seen one of the sides do just about every game: play more cautiously. Germany created some chances and was getting stronger. When extra time hit and Lippi had made all his substitutions Italy were back to being the dominating side and created huge possibilities. In the end they ran out deserving winners.

In the final they seemed reasonably in control in the first half and were screwed over by a dive from Malouda. Then in the second half France played their best football of the tournament by finally playing free attacking football and pushing the Italians back. Italy ran out winners on penalty kicks in the end. France deserved more on the night, but Italy had shown us more good football over the tournament as a whole.

And I agree with you that Italy isn't Brazil. Italy are much stronger than this poor, pathetic excuse of a Brazilian side. Their coach made huge mistakes by playing too many of their old stars (Roberto Carlos, Cafu, Ronaldo) and by not choosing for a balanced side.

But that's exactly what I meant to say earlier. People label certain teams and those teams can never get rid of those labels:

Brazil = Jogo Bonito. Indeed, what a fantastic performance by these amazing football gods. How we all enjoyed to watch them play. :worshippy: :eusa_liar:

Italy = Defensive, ugly, cheating football. Yes, this was very true during this tournament. They barely attacked. Just once or twice on average during a game and they became world champions by scoring one out of every two chances. It's not like they hit the wood work against Germany (twice), Ghana (twice) and so forth. And the worst thing is that they always get helped out by the referee. Every call goes their way and they never get one against them. :eusa_liar:

Labels. They're so ridiculous. Let's see how long it takes the Portugese and the Dutch to get rid of their labels as kicking and diving scoundrols. ;)

[jakobg]

Italy might be the winner in the records, but after seeing the final yesterday and the way Zidane was sent off (since when is it allowed to use video footage to give players a red card....)

Are you actually defending Zidane here? You think he shouldn't have been sent off? I couldn't care less who saw and who's decision the red card was. It was one of the worst things I've seen on a football pitch, in such a big game from such a big footballer.

[FlaFlu]

France knocked out Spain (3-1), Brazil (1-0), Portugal (1-0) and was much better than Italy in the final (in particular in the second half and extended time). I think this is a very hard way to the final (unlike Italy, who should have lost against Australia, did well against a very poor Ukraine and had A LOT of luck against Germany). Italy might be the winner in the records, but after seeing the final yesterday and the way Zidane was sent off (since when is it allowed to use video footage to give players a red card....), the way Vieira got injured, France is the winner in my heart.

First of all. France wasn't much better than Italy. Yes, from the 55th minute to the 75th minute France played just about their best football of the tournament and seemed to blow by Italy on all cilinders. Without creating too many huge chances, I might add.

And like I said earlier, I thought Italy were very hard done by because of the penalty France got. Players should learn that not every bit of contact warrants a jump to the floor. All the people who criticized Grosso should just as well criticize Malouda now. :xyxthumbs:

Second of all, Italy shouldn't have lost against Australia. They shouldn't have won in regular time because of that penalty, but there were no clear signs that Italy was bound to lose that game.

Third of all, Italy did not have a lot of luck against Germany. They were the better side for the first 55 minutes of regular time and every minute of extra time. Luck? No way. Or did you forget that they hit the bar and the post and had over 60% of the ball?

Fourth of all, Vieira got injured without anyone near the ball.

[acab]

i think it it's enough with this stuped WC :redcard:

[Van der Vaart]

Yeah...for me ,one of the worst WC ever .


thank God Eredivisie will start

[Kowalczyk]

Yeah...for me ,one of the worst WC ever .

I agree.

I started watching football in 1983. Don't really remember the 1982 World Cup. Didn't watch it. The first World Cup that I really watched was 1986, so I've watched six in total now.

The 1990 one was just as boring as this year's, perhaps even worse, but this one is a pretty close second. The football in 1986, 1994 and 1998 was much better, whereas 2002 was not great for football purists, but very spectacular because so many of the big teams were f*cking up and Korea took advantage.

But this was a very dry one. Definitely.

K.

[DanK]

...Second of all, Italy shouldn't have lost against Australia. They shouldn't have won in regular time because of that penalty, but there were no clear signs that Italy was bound to lose that game....

Very true. When the dive happened, I was extremely pissed off (needless to say), but in all honesty, Australia didn't really deserve to win the game up to that point either. I don't really remember any true, clear cut chances we had.

Plenty of people keep saying if it went to extra time, our extra man would have done it, forgetting that for most of the 2nd half they couldn't.

Probably the worst thing that happend in that game was the Italy send off (which wasn't deserved btw). Once this happend Italy closed shop. There was little chance we were going to score, and as we kept attacking we left ourselves open at the back. Bresciano shouldn't have been left alone at the back, he also shouldn't have let Grosso get past him (take him down BEFORE he got into the box), then of course poor Neill (who without doubt was our best player and imo one of the best defenders of the WC) learnt a valuable lesson about going to ground and giving Grosso the oportunity to dive.

IMO Italy played pretty well over the course of the WC (and not ultra defensive) most of the time. Sure they DID when they had to (ie: against Aust), but nothing like the "old" Italy has done before. They deserved it as much as France would have if they had won.

If the WC was based on just attractive footballing terms, then maybe Argentina or Germany should have won, but since when has being the most attractive (or even best) team given you the right to be World Champion (74 anyone)?

[carcajou]

Italy might be the winner in the records, but after seeing the final yesterday and the way Zidane was sent off (since when is it allowed to use video footage to give players a red card....)

Are you actually defending Zidane here? You think he shouldn't have been sent off? I couldn't care less who saw and who's decision the red card was. It was one of the worst things I've seen on a football pitch, in such a big game from such a big footballer.

To be honest, I wish he had headbutted him in the nose and left him in a puddle of blood. Apparently he's not as good with his head than he is with his feet... :nooo:

[Monkey Tonk]

Zidane, the ultimate artist, in some strange way may have picked this exit. With all the cheating and diving, simulating and crying, today's football is rotten to the core; especially to purists. So ten minutes before ending his career, one of the best footballers ever made the statement of all statements, regardless of the consequences, on the biggest stage imaginable.

"You want to cheat, dive, insult, spit, and destroy the game? Fine....

TAKE THIS!!"

I'd like to think that this was Zidane's protest to what has become of the beautiful game. A final statement more memorable than a winning goal. A sacrifice of his reputation for a greater purpose.

Then again, I may be wrong.

[Kowalczyk]

In the press it is being suggested that Materazzi made a racist remark. Zidane's mother is an Algerian woman and according to some Materazzi said something to the effect of "mulim terrorist". Another suggestion is that Materazzi insulted Zidane's sisters.

Zidane will speak later this week, but Materazzi has already shared his version of the story with us. According to the Italian defender he grabbed Zidane's shirt and held it for a few seconds, after which Zidane turned around, looked at him condescendingly and said: "If you want that shirt you'll have to wait until after the final whistle."

Which Materazzi thought was "super arrogant" and that's why he insulted Zidane. However: "It wasn't a racist remark and it was not about his mother. Mothers are holy. No, it was a general insult. What exactly? I won't tell, but it was just one of those things that people say all the time."

I wonder what Zidane has to say...

K.

[Kowalczyk]

Lip-reader reveals what riled Zidane

Tuesday July 11, 2006
The Guardian

An Italian lip-reader last night claimed to have deciphered the words Marco Materazzi said to Zinédine Zidane that provoked the French captain into butting him in the chest during Sunday's World Cup final, the great midfielder's final act before a red card ended his career in top-level football.

According to the BBC, Materazzi said, "I wish an ugly death to you and all your family," and then told Zidane to "go fuck yourself".

A Paris-based anti-racism group, SOS-Racism, earlier said that "several very well informed sources" had suggested Zidane was called a "dirty terrorist".

But though video evidence is being used to judge Materazzi, it was not used by match officials to condemn Zidane. Fifa yesterday released a statement insisting that "the fourth referee saw the incident with his own eyes and told the referee and the assistant directly through their headsets".

The controversy did not stop Zidane from winning the Golden Ball as the World Cup's best player, ahead of the final's other captain, Italy's Fabio Cannavaro. The Frenchman earned 2,012 points in a poll of journalists covering the event, with Cannavaro on 1,977 and the Italian midfielder Andrea Pirlo third with 715.

K.

[ZoefdeHaas]

Ooh. Harsh, but lip readers arnt exactly primary sources

[FlaFlu]

...Second of all, Italy shouldn't have lost against Australia. They shouldn't have won in regular time because of that penalty, but there were no clear signs that Italy was bound to lose that game....

Very true. When the dive happened, I was extremely pissed off (needless to say), but in all honesty, Australia didn't really deserve to win the game up to that point either. I don't really remember any true, clear cut chances we had.

Plenty of people keep saying if it went to extra time, our extra man would have done it, forgetting that for most of the 2nd half they couldn't.

Probably the worst thing that happend in that game was the Italy send off (which wasn't deserved btw). Once this happend Italy closed shop. There was little chance we were going to score, and as we kept attacking we left ourselves open at the back. Bresciano shouldn't have been left alone at the back, he also shouldn't have let Grosso get past him (take him down BEFORE he got into the box), then of course poor Neill (who without doubt was our best player and imo one of the best defenders of the WC) learnt a valuable lesson about going to ground and giving Grosso the oportunity to dive.

IMO Italy played pretty well over the course of the WC (and not ultra defensive) most of the time. Sure they DID when they had to (ie: against Aust), but nothing like the "old" Italy has done before. They deserved it as much as France would have if they had won.

If the WC was based on just attractive footballing terms, then maybe Argentina or Germany should have won, but since when has being the most attractive (or even best) team given you the right to be World Champion (74 anyone)?

Very glad to hear all of this from an Australian, DanK. You're showing great sportsmanship and honesty. :xyxthumbs:

[Per]

In regards to Aveslacker not accepting the argument: "Everyone else is doing it so it's fine" I take it you are referring to some of my bitter remarks?

If so, that was not my intention of those. My intention was to get the point across that : Everyone else is doing it so I don't get why Portugal and Italy are taking so much stick for it.

Anyone with self critisism has seen their team do it. I gave a couple of examples in an earlier comment and I bet you that I can give examples on most of the teams.

My personal hate one is when faking injuries. This was something that Germany did on four occassions against Sweden. I've rarely been so frustrated in my life.

So in short: No it's not ok, and everyone is doing it.

[mick]

this world cup officially sucked...i don't remember too many GREAT games. i'll have to really jog my memory to think of say 10 great games from the whole tournament. for me, this was a tournament of divers, yellow cards, and an eye-opening realization that fifa has to introduce video replay or SOMETHING to stamp out bad calls (offsides), and introdyce fair play.