World Cup 2006

[Henk de Gier]

if you use physical violence after a verbal insult, then you are wrong. No doubt about that. Zidane was wrong, not Materazzi.

....don't you mean as well as Materazzi. I'm not trying to pick at words but what you've said here seems to suggest that it is OK to say anything to anyone and if they retaliate physically then they are 100% wrong.

I know the old "Sticks and Stones can break my bones, but words can nver hurt me" playground verse (do you have that in Holland?) but we're not talking playground insults here.

I don't think anyone will argue that what Zidane did was right but we are talking degree of blame here for Materazzi (and in my opinion, if the words were bad enough then the share of blame is high)

well, in that case Zidane is still the guilty one, because Materazzi replied to an insult made by Zidane. Zidane started about the Italian foul play process (in which Materazzi's team isn't involved btw).

[Henk de Gier]

Zidane was provoked, but for headbutting someone like that he is the guilty party.

Zidane was the first to provoke.

[Cedric]

well, in that case Zidane is still the guilty one, because Materazzi replied to an insult made by Zidane. Zidane started about the Italian foul play process (in which Materazzi's team isn't involved btw).

That's a scoop... ;) Even Materazzi never said he was insulted. Zidane was "arrogant" : "if you want my shirt I'll give after the game". Well, that's not exactly what I call an insult... And as far as I know, he didn't have to pull his shirt. You may Zidane is the only one guilty (I disagree, as said above), but not that he started the whole affair...

[Amol]

Did I say he was right ? No. Maybe that's understantable, in the context (110', end of world cup, lot of pressure, etc...) but that's not his job to do justice and no one have to react like this. He was punished, he will be punished (i think), and that's normal... But it's not normal to insult a player and then become an innocent hero.

Well, didn't Zidane say something to Materazzi like "If you want me jersey so much, then you can keep it." Materazzi must've said something in return since Zidane was acting high & mighty.

Again, I'm not a big fan of Materazzi at all. In fact the guy is a pretty big nut job.

So essentially what people are saying is - since Zidane is a really good footballer, he can insult Materazzi but Materazzi can't insult Zidane. Who's to decide who can insult & to what level.

Zidane lost his cool during a verbal confrontation with a player which he thought was of a much lower quality. In my eyes, that's just stupid.

Also, I've seen Zidane stamp on players. He isn't the cleanest player out there you know.

[Henk de Gier]

well, in that case Zidane is still the guilty one, because Materazzi replied to an insult made by Zidane. Zidane started about the Italian foul play process (in which Materazzi's team isn't involved btw).

That's a scoop... ;) Even Materazzi never said he was insulted. Zidane was "arrogant" : "if you want my shirt I'll give after the game". Well, that's not exactly what I call an insult... And as far as I know, he didn't have to pull his shirt. You may Zidane is the only one guilty (I disagree, as said above), but not that he started the whole affair...

well, from what i've heard Zidane said "you can have my shirt after the trial". Anyway, Zidane started the verbal war.

[FlaFlu]

Zidane was provoked, but for headbutting someone like that he is the guilty party.

Zidane was the first to provoke.

Where did you get that from?

From what I heard Zidane said that Materazzi "can have his shirt after the match if he wants it so badly". I think we can both agree that that is playful taunting of an opponent and in no way comparable to talking about someone's sick mother.

[Henk de Gier]

again, Materazzi denies it was a remark about Zidane's mother and I believe that because mothers are a holy subject in Italy and Materazzi lost his mum at a young age so it's a painfull subject to him.

[Cedric]

Well, didn't Zidane say something to Materazzi like "If you want me jersey so much, then you can keep it." Materazzi must've said something in return since Zidane was acting high & mighty.

I've just read and heard : "if you want my jersey, I will give you after the game."

So essentially what people are saying is - since Zidane is a really good footballer, he can insult Materazzi but Materazzi can't insult Zidane. Who's to decide who can insult & to what level.

That's very simple for me : no one can insult someone.
Materazzi is the only one to have insulted someone (I don't think he did have to reply to Zidane by an insult...) and Zidane is the only one to have hit someone (and I didn't think he had to reply with and head-butt...)

Zidane lost his cool during a verbal confrontation with a player which he thought was of a much lower quality. In my eyes, that's just stupid.

Also, I've seen Zidane stamp on players. He isn't the cleanest player out there you know.

That's very true.... :yes:

again, Materazzi denies it was a remark about Zidane's mother and I believe that because mothers are a holy subject in Italy and Materazzi lost his mum at a young age so it's a painfull subject to him.

Well, Materazzi also said he didn't know what is a terrorist (Maybe he never watched any of his previous game in Serie A...) and also said a lot of bullshit. There isn't any reason (not even the sacred mama blabla) to believe him more than Zidane who said it was about his mother and sister. I think it's the only point where there is a real disagreement between the two and they are the only ones who really know what was said.

[Henk de Gier]

Zidane has to defend his actions, so his word means less to me then the word of Materazzi, who denies it's about family.

[FlaFlu]

For all we know Materazzi has something to defend as well.

[Henk de Gier]

what does he have to defend? His reputation? :D

[FlaFlu]

His words.

[Henk de Gier]

he got nothing to defend Thomas. People like you call him guilty already, no matter what he said.

[Cedric]

Did you forget that he has to defend his case in front of the FIFA ? I'm not sure he would like to be sanctionned and suspended...

[Henk de Gier]

it's ridiculous that he has to defend himself in front of the FIFA, all because Zidane lost his cool.

[AjaxPDX]

Meterazzi didn't say anything racial. Zidane's mom and sister are in the hospital, and Meterazzi spent the game telling Zidane that they deserved to be in the hospital, that we hopes they die, etc. Nobody doubts that. It's what Zidane said, and it's what Meterazzi has stated (and presumably, wrote in his letter to FIFA). Meterazzi did it to get under Zidane's skin and get a reaction. And it obviously worked.

What Zidane did was stupid, stupid, stupid! He's a professional, he should have realized what Meterazzi was trying to do, and he shouldn't have reacted the way he did on the field during the match. However, I think it would have been more appropriate and understandable if Zidane had waited until after the game, and then confronted Meterazzi. Like I said, it was the wrong time and place for Zidane to react like that, but to a degree, I give him credit because it was a very human and real reaction in a sport that has too often become overly sterilized, sanitized, and unemotional. Go stand out on the street and watch a guy say those things to another guy for over an hour straight and see what happens... he won't just head-butt him, he'll beat him until he's barely breathing. It was almost like after hearing Meterazzi say Zidane's mother deserved to die for the tenth time, Zidane just said to himself, "I don't care anymore that I'm on the field, that's enough, you've crossed the line, and now I'm going to kick the sh*t out of you."

Stupid reaction considering the time and place, but I certainly can't fault Zidane for having a very real and human reaction to the provocation. He just would've been better off waiting until after the match.

They both deserve punishment, in my opinion.

[Henk de Gier]

Meterazzi didn't say anything racial. Zidane's mom and sister are in the hospital, and Meterazzi spent the game telling Zidane that they deserved to be in the hospital, that we hopes they die, etc. Nobody doubts that. It's what Zidane said, and it's what Meterazzi has stated (and presumably, wrote in his letter to FIFA). Meterazzi did it to get under Zidane's skin and get a reaction. And it obviously worked.

Materazzi has stated that he didn't mention anything about Zidane's mum.

But still, even if he did, that's no reason to give a headbust.

[SE6Ajacied]

Meterazzi didn't say anything racial. Zidane's mom and sister are in the hospital, and Meterazzi spent the game telling Zidane that they deserved to be in the hospital, that we hopes they die, etc. Nobody doubts that. It's what Zidane said, and it's what Meterazzi has stated (and presumably, wrote in his letter to FIFA). Meterazzi did it to get under Zidane's skin and get a reaction. And it obviously worked.

Materazzi has stated that he didn't mention anything about Zidane's mum.

But still, even if he did, that's no reason to give a headbust.

Gawd, I've been at work all day and we are still going on! Frankly Zidane was an idiot to do what he did (which we all agree on I think) but that does not excuse Materazzi. His statement about "not knowing" what a terrorist was is just completely ludicrous and stupid.

I'm not saying what Zidane did was right (just that it could be understandable and "human" depending on what was actually said) but for Materazzi to make out that he is completely inocent is just beyond belief.

[Over Pasanens Head]

So what if he said, or the other one said, or who said what first - Zidane should never have reacted like that.
Its a man's game and taunting and winding up of players is nothing new - I can remember it (only just) going on in the Basildon Sunday League football league in the 60's - so what - it was all part and parcel of the game even back then at that level - if your opponent got agitated you knew you had him in your pocket for the rest of the game as he wouldn't be concentrating on the football. Job done - not nice but you are out there to win not pussy-foot around.

I believe that Zidane was knackered and in that state , heat and humidity he just snapped.

[SPL]

I have just come on for one last read before we go off air and we are still on the same topic . Perhaps it is just as well we are off air for a day or 2.

Hope you all have a few good days off .

[Manneken Pis]

As a footnote to the World Cup, here's an interesting link to the "unofficial" world cup. The concept is simple, the first "international" match was in 1872 between England and Scotland, the winner was therefore the "best team" to have played at that time. The title only changes hads when that team is beaten, and then the title moves (as in boxing).

Our Scottish board members will be pleased with the results no doubt... ;)

http://www.rsssf.com/miscellaneous/unoff-wc.html

[Henk de Gier]

a funny Zidane vs Materazzi clip on youtube.com