15 Sep 2010: Real Madrid CF - Ajax

[SE6Ajacied]

nearly 2-1 - but just after Real had sliced the shot past the post so could easily have been 3-0.

[Azeri]

No... nothing can help them... they even don't realise how weak this Real is... no force, no strength, no determination, no fight spirit
I'll wait another 10 years

[Orange14]

Morinho had them ready for us. They took away all of our usual passing lanes and we didn't seem to have a plan 'B' other than some few aimless long balls. It turned out to be a shooting gallery and we were fortunate both with some good goal keeping and the fact that they couldn't keep anything on net when they had some open shots. It was always going to be a difficult match to win much less draw (I think this is the the toughest team in the group given their talent and manager). Biggest disappointment was the very poor passing on our part; you cannot allow as much possession as we did in our half and hope for any kind of a result. Well, we have the classic to get ready for and they should put this one behind them in the next five minutes.

[paladinby]

I think we did ok.

We didn't allow many chances before that unlucky goal.

It took somewhat like 30 minutes to adapt to that field for growing potatoes.

Midfield was the problem in this game, many attacks started from deep with no pressure on Madrid players. Defence didn't collapse and Steks played great.

I firmly believe we can qualify for CL play-off round.

We should start by beating Milan and Auxerre at home.

[orange goblin]

very poor passing: this was the main problem. we conceded many chances, ok, but in bernabeu basically you have to. good test for alderweireld, who I found decent. I don't agree that enoh was bad: he and urby were the only ones who won some tackles and tried to do something with the ball. demy was awful and de jong is not a playmaker. which is a role we miss so much. maybe lodeiro, one day, although seems to me too light.
oh, and the two who were missing are absolutely 2 key players.
don't know if we can manage to qualify. I don't even think about it. But we can do the EL and, as someone said, we can grow in the Eredivisie thanks to this kind of matches

[Orange14]

Remember that this Madrid team had 11 players who either started for or would have (barring injury in Pepe's case) for WC teams this past summer. We had 2 (3 if Suarez had not been suspended). Talent difference was vast between the two clubs. I'm in Paladinby's camp that we did OK given the circumstances.

[SE6Ajacied]

Have to agree that the 2-0 defeat is hardly a disgrace, but also that some of our play was very poor. As I said before though, Real just looked to be playing at half speed to me and they always looked like thy could step up a gear if they chose to so it could have been worse.

Hope we can build from this and move on to the next one now - big game this weekend

[orange goblin]

maybe Jol said better than all of us: "It was men versus boys". how true.

[Venezuelan Ajacied]

Guys this game was plain and simply not even close, Madrid could have scored 6 or more goals...the amount of chances was amazing, they got close to thirty shots on goal, we barely got more than five.....we simply cant compete with this caliber of teams.

[cdnajaxfan]

Did not expect us to win, especially without Suarez and Verthongen.

What this game did was expose our shortcomings. We have a really poor midfield and we really need a natural winger.

Enoh got schooled in the first half. Half of the really good goal scoring chances Real had were because of his getting schooled. El Hamdaoui is a goal scorer but boy is he S-L-O-W!

[Kowalczyk]

Quite.

Next up: The Classic.

K.

[Philippe]

As expected, Real Mad are among the handful of sides out of reach (with Barça, Man U, Chelsea, and 2 or 3 others in Europe).
We have to hope on AC Milan weaknesses at the beginning of the season.
More likely we'll fight for spot 3, and therefore Europa League.

Stekelenburg had (once more) a great game.

Oooijer was very good too.

[Orange14]

Thanks to St. Maarten we did not get blown out as several other teams did in the first CL match (35 shots, 14 on goal, 13 saves; he deserves extra pay just for staying alive at the end of the match). Some observations on the "day after." The talent gulf between us and the top six teams in Europe is extraordinarily vast and shows no signs of narrowing anytime soon. We lack a creative playmaker in the midfield (no surprise since the departure of Sneijder) and it's not certain that any of our current squad can fill this big void (is this a role for Eriksen or Lodeiro?). Oojier had a decent match but we really missed Vertonghen who can help on building the attack from the back. Oojier has to be a stay at home defender because of the lack of speed. Midfield defense and passing was extremely poor (de Zeeuw was most disappointing in that respect and Enoh was beaten so many times I lost count). Finally (and with some hesitation), I'm not sure that Jol had the team ready to play. Madrid choked off all the passing lanes and it seems we did not have any plan to address that (should have been done at half time). We routinely have 60% possession in our league matches and yesterday we only had 34% (OK we were facing a world cup class set of midfielders, but...). We tended to revert to long ball which has been a disturbing trend over the months since Jol took over. I was taken aback by the impact of Suarez's absence. Morinho gave Marcelo free reign to move forward since he did not see any attack danger from that side. This created a huge imbalance for us on defense and contributed to several breakdowns.

I don't think our other two opponents have the same class in midfield so there is some cause for optimism there. Maybe it was good to get this match out of the way first, we'll see. I suspect that Madrid will be one of the finalists for the CL cup next spring and this confirms for me that Morinho is one of the finest managers around.

[Purple Cow's Ghost]

I don't think that this Real Madrid team is all that good, they may just struggle to get out of this division ahead of Auxerre. Certainly I can't see them making it past the Q.F.'s unless they improve out of all recognition.

Ajax just don't belong in this competition. Like MSK Zilina, Hapoel and Braga we are just cannon-fodder for the big boys.

The money will be useful though.

[GangstaRiB]

I don't think that this Real Madrid team is all that good, they may just struggle to get out of this division ahead of Auxerre. Certainly I can't see them making it past the Q.F.'s unless they improve out of all recognition.

Ajax just don't belong in this competition. Like MSK Zilina, Hapoel and Braga we are just cannon-fodder for the big boys.

The money will be useful though.

I do not completely agree. Sure, Real (and clubs alike) will win 9 out of 10 games when they play Ajax. But Ajax displayed a total lack of guts and confidence. I think that Jol made a major error in preparing our guys for this match. At least TRY to upset Madrid.....

On the other hand, the big 5 (Spain, England, Italy, Germany and France) are creating a huge gap between smaller football nations. When UEFA doesn't change anything, the Champions League (in a few years) will contain only clubs from the big 5.

[orange goblin]

Maybe in European matches we could add Vertonghen to midfield, to give strength, and put permanently Oojer behind. We should look a bit more solid. Just an idea.
I completely agree we lack a playmaker, a man of order, and if it's not Lodeiro - and I am not so sure - it will be no one.
Things will improve, anyway. With Luis and Jan back we are definitely better. And we made an important experience yesterday. Let's be concrete: we can manage to get the 3rd place, a bit of money, and some other few runs in the Europa League. For now winning the Eredivisie is more important.

[Philippe]

On the other hand, the big 5 (Spain, England, Italy, Germany and France) are creating a huge gap between smaller football nations. When UEFA doesn't change anything, the Champions League (in a few years) will contain only clubs from the big 5.

I do not agree. I think that the huge gap is between Europe's ten or so wealthiest clubs (Barcelona, Real Madrid, Chelsea, Man U, Arsenal, Bayern, Inter,..) and the rest. None of these clubs can be beaten in a long competition like the CL by any other.

As for "big" football nations, it seems to me that England and Spain are far ahead, that's all. I don't see France or even Germany as "big" nations.

Let's avoid any unjustified inferiority complex.

[Purple Cow's Ghost]

But Ajax displayed a total lack of guts and confidence.

Completely agree.

There were roughly three categories of Ajax player last night.

1. Those Ajax players who played as if they felt they were not worthy to be on the same pitch as Real Madrid. (Enoh, De Zeeuw, El Hamdaoui, van der Wiel, Sulejmani, Emanuelson.)

2. Those who just looked completely terrified. ( Anita, Aldewereld, De Jong.)

3. Experienced 'been-there-done-that' players who did a lot better than you would expect (Stekkers, Ooijer.)

It doesn't matter what you are doing in life, there's no point in doing anything half-heartedly, and it seems to me too many of the players went into the game thinking "we can't win this". Which of course becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.

[Orange14]

On the other hand, the big 5 (Spain, England, Italy, Germany and France) are creating a huge gap between smaller football nations. When UEFA doesn't change anything, the Champions League (in a few years) will contain only clubs from the big 5.

I do not agree. I think that the huge gap is between Europe's ten or so wealthiest clubs (Barcelona, Real Madrid, Chelsea, Man U, Arsenal, Bayern, Inter,..) and the rest. None of these clubs can be beaten in a long competition like the CL by any other.

As for "big" football nations, it seems to me that England and Spain are far ahead, that's all. I don't see France or even Germany as "big" nations.

Let's avoid any unjustified inferiority complex.

Quite right. Look at most of the German and French clubs. They cannot keep their good young players either. Madrid was raiding leagues from all over Europe to build their latest team. Where did Ozil and Khedeira come from? I think we are competitive with all but the top two teams in Spain and perhaps the top 3-4 teams in England; it was a shame we had to get our lunch handed to us yesterday evening.

[Orange14]

But Ajax displayed a total lack of guts and confidence.

Completely agree.

There were roughly three categories of Ajax player last night.

1. Those Ajax players who played as if they felt they were not worthy to be on the same pitch as Real Madrid. (Enoh, De Zeeuw, El Hamdaoui, van der Wiel, Sulejmani, Emanuelson.)

2. Those who just looked completely terrified. ( Anita, Aldewereld, De Jong.)

3. Experienced 'been-there-done-that' players who did a lot better than you would expect (Stekkers, Ooijer.)

It doesn't matter what you are doing in life, there's no point in doing anything half-heartedly, and it seems to me too many of the players went into the game thinking "we can't win this". Which of course becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.

But this is the role of the manager; get them prepared so that they have a plan. I do not think Jol had them prepared for what they were going to face.

[Manneken Pis]

Yes, in part you can blame the manager, and yes, richer clubs in richer leagues can buy better players, but I think the there is another factor...

What I felt when I saw the game was that you could really see the fact that most of our players don't have the experience of performing on this kind of stage. The years we have been out of the Champions League have hurt us badly because it's a different world from playing Den Haag on a rainy Sunday afternoon. Without that 'big match' experience it's not surprising that they looked like a herd of deers in the headlights. Small clubs that have regular CL participation (like P$V) do have a collective experience of these kind of nights (even if the players change now and then), and as such they have the culture and mentality to adapt themselves to these kinds of games. I think Ajax rode on the high of 1995 for a long time and our club culture and team mentality reflected that on the pitch, when the team was actually much less good than before.

Either that or you need the collective hysteria (like Twente) that are having the night of their lives ... but I think that only works at home although I question how Twente will do in the away games.

Anyway, my point was those failed CL qualification rounds of the last few years are still coming back to haunt us, not just because of the money lost, but in terms of club culture.

[gordonvandekamp]

It was always going to be a tough match without our best attacker and one of the best defenders. I think it's games like this where it's evident that Suarez creates so much of the offense, and I think it's a problem to just rely on that, which works against Roda or Vitesse but not a squad like Madrid. We had so few chances in the final third all night.

[Amol]

But Ajax displayed a total lack of guts and confidence.

Completely agree.

There were roughly three categories of Ajax player last night.

1. Those Ajax players who played as if they felt they were not worthy to be on the same pitch as Real Madrid. (Enoh, De Zeeuw, El Hamdaoui, van der Wiel, Sulejmani, Emanuelson.)

2. Those who just looked completely terrified. ( Anita, Aldewereld, De Jong.)

3. Experienced 'been-there-done-that' players who did a lot better than you would expect (Stekkers, Ooijer.)

It doesn't matter what you are doing in life, there's no point in doing anything half-heartedly, and it seems to me too many of the players went into the game thinking "we can't win this". Which of course becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.

You can add Jol to list #1 and #2 based on his pre-match interviews.

Jol - "It will be an open game but it is difficult for us to reach their level. We must seek to exploit the fact that they don't yet function 100 per cent,"

But, I think Jol is the man who can get us to win the Eredivisie and then hopefully by next year we'll be able to get a slightly smarter manager.

[Orange14]

Every time I feel a little down, like yesterday I only have to look at how Juventus are playing these days and I think we are in pretty good shape. They drew to the Polish team Lech Poznan in the Europa League and look absolutely terrible in their domestic league.

[Philippe]

Jol said (...) : "It was men versus boys".

Not a very smart thing to say when you are the coach.

Maybe in European matches we could add Vertonghen to midfield, to give strength, and put permanently Oojer behind. We should look a bit more solid. Just an idea.

Very good idea IMO.