29 Apr 2007: Willem II - Ajax

Bericht door **Kowalczyk** » ma apr 30, 2007 8:38 am

Absolutely gutted, by the way.

K.

bluedaddy19 · Bericht door **bluedaddy19** » ma apr 30, 2007 8:41 am

Manneken Pis schreef: BTW did anybody else spot the Willem II players raise their arms in celebration at the final whistle? They had just lost the game, but were happy....WTF was that all about???????

yes, and i also found it in very poor sportsmanship to be wasting time and laying all over the field after minimal contact when they are losing the game

ummmm, hello? you dont work for psv, remember?

carcajou · Bericht door **carcajou** » ma apr 30, 2007 9:02 am

So

Ajax - Heerenveen

AZ - Twente it will be for the playoffs.

Oh and by the way, less bitching please. If PSV ends the championship with as many points and a better goal-differential than Ajax, then they are champions. Now let's try to do what it takes to be champion next year.

bluedaddy19 · Bericht door **bluedaddy19** » ma apr 30, 2007 9:07 am

i hate to break this to ya, buddy, but we can and should bitch all we want

there was 100 tiny things that would have given us the title, and it was our own fault that 96 of them didn't happen

so yeah, i feel like bitching... a lot... at multiple targets... about a lot of things... for about two months

get used to it

dws · Bericht door **dws** » ma apr 30, 2007 9:19 am

bluedaddy19 schreef:i hate to break this to ya, buddy, but we can and should bitch all we want

there was 100 tiny things that would have given us the title, and it was our own fault that 96 of them didn't happen

so yeah, i feel like bitching... a lot... at multiple targets... about a lot of things... for about two months

get used to it

Dead fuckin' right, bluedaddy.

Philippe · Bericht door **Philippe** » ma apr 30, 2007 9:43 am

well, let's remember that we lost the title when we couldn't beat RKC, and after that is was over, no one could think we could get so close,

so let's focus on the Cup final and the play-offs

we still can qualify for the CL

ZoefdeHaas · Bericht door **ZoefdeHaas** » ma apr 30, 2007 9:45 am

ZoefdeHaas · Bericht door **ZoefdeHaas** » ma apr 30, 2007 9:47 am

by the way I think Holland should adopt the Spanish way. instead of goal difference in which lots of shite teams can get a lot of, they should use head-to-head results. that way its more competative and more logical- the better team.

Philippe · Bericht door **Philippe** » ma apr 30, 2007 10:12 am

ZoefdeHaas schreef:by the way I think Holland should adopt the Spanish way. instead of goal difference , they should use head-to-head results.

I fully agree, and above all give up this stupid play-offs system.

magiconenl · Bericht door **magiconenl** » ma apr 30, 2007 12:27 pm

ZoefdeHaas schreef:by the way I think Holland should adopt the Spanish way. instead of goal difference in which lots of shite teams can get a lot of, they should use head-to-head results. that way its more competative and more logical- the better team.

Not sure off that. Just give all you've got against the weak teams and win with 5or 6 goals difference. Then there's no problem at all. But when you're happy with a 1 goal difference win over a weak team or even happy with a draw thats where trouble come's right in.

ZoefdeHaas · Bericht door **ZoefdeHaas** » ma apr 30, 2007 12:37 pm

That's up to the managers perspective. But when two teams are level at the end I think its more logical to use the head-to-head results. that way you do get the better team of the season between them two, and it adds more flavour to the competition. scoring heaps of goals doesnt necessarily mean your the best.

carcajou · Bericht door **carcajou** » ma apr 30, 2007 4:23 pm

bluedaddy19 schreef:i hate to break this to ya, buddy, but we can and should bitch all we want

there was 100 tiny things that would have given us the title, and it was our own fault that 96 of them didn't happen

so yeah, i feel like bitching... a lot... at multiple targets... about a lot of things... for about two months

get used to it

Well, I am *deeply* sorry for you too but.... Just watch the ajaxusa.com game articles.....

We lost against Roda, Sparta Rotterdam, Vitesse and Heerenveen, had a few bad draws, failed in UEFA Cup and pretty much never led the first division. In the meantime, PSV made it to the quarter finals of the Champions League while leading its domestic league for most of the season. Now I'm just like you bluedaddy, I can't stand maths when they're not on my side, but my point is that if you have to count on goal differential to claim the crown, then you can't blame anything but yourself if you don't succeed in the money time. Now what I would like now is a CL spot and a team of hungry motherfuckers ready to butcher the Eredivisie and perform well on the european scene next season.

PS: No hard feelings....

aveslacker · Bericht door **aveslacker** » ma apr 30, 2007 5:29 pm

philippe schreef:well, let's remember that we lost the title when we couldn't beat RKC, and after that is was over, no one could think we could get so close,

so let's focus on the Cup final and the play-offs

we still can qualify for the CL

Agree!!!

aveslacker · Bericht door **aveslacker** » ma apr 30, 2007 5:29 pm

philippe schreef:
ZoefdeHaas schreef:by the way I think Holland should adopt the Spanish way. instead of goal difference , they should use head-to-head results.
I fully agree, and above all give up this stupid play-offs system.

Double agree!!!

aveslacker · Bericht door **aveslacker** » ma apr 30, 2007 5:30 pm

This has to be one of the worst sporting weekends of my life.

Ugh.

paladinby · Bericht door **paladinby** » ma apr 30, 2007 6:42 pm

Actually u know the rules (play-off systems, etc) before competition starts. So just act according to them and dont whine after....

bluedaddy19 · Bericht door **bluedaddy19** » ma apr 30, 2007 8:55 pm

carcajou schreef: Well, I am *deeply* sorry for you too but.... Just watch the ajaxusa.com game articles.....

We lost against Roda, Sparta Rotterdam, Vitesse and Heerenveen, had a few bad draws, failed in UEFA Cup and pretty much never led the first division. In the meantime, PSV made it to the quarter finals of the Champions League while leading its domestic league for most of the season. Now I'm just like you bluedaddy, I can't stand maths when they're not on my side, but my point is that if you have to count on goal differential to claim the crown, then you can't blame anything but yourself if you don't succeed in the money time. Now what I would like now is a CL spot and a team of hungry motherfuckers ready to butcher the Eredivisie and perform well on the european scene next season.

PS: No hard feelings....

ok... but i did say 96 of the 100 "bitches" i have are aimed at us - we handed psv the opportunity on a plate sunday by playing so lame, no doubt ... we flaked against RKC, no doubt, and so forth and so on

i promise i will be searching for answers of why we finished one goal short and let those stupid farmers pick up another title (gag) all offseason, that's why its such a difficult thing to accept

the self defeating willem II gamesmanship was just something separate that i noticed that day, then remembered when it was pointed out... strange stuff indeed

PS - never hard feelings with you, pal... no worries

Frans · Bericht door **Frans** » ma apr 30, 2007 9:27 pm

ZoefdeHaas schreef:That's up to the managers perspective. But when two teams are level at the end I think its more logical to use the head-to-head results. that way you do get the better team of the season between them two, and it adds more flavour to the competition. scoring heaps of goals doesnt necessarily mean your the best.

The problem with that is once a 'top' team goes up 1 or 2 goals against a weak team, they'll just sit back in cruise control for the rest of the game. That would be a lot of boring games...

Rubin Stark · Bericht door **Rubin Stark** » di mei 01, 2007 5:05 am

While losing the title may be disappointing, I tend to think this kind of setback will encourage players to work just that little bit harder for next season. Not the end of the world.

ZoefdeHaas · Bericht door **ZoefdeHaas** » di mei 01, 2007 8:15 am

Frans schreef:
The problem with that is once a 'top' team goes up 1 or 2 goals against a weak team, they'll just sit back in cruise control for the rest of the game. That would be a lot of boring games...

not really. more teams in holland are becoming stronger, and why would a team want to be joint on points at the end in the first place?

Frans · Bericht door **Frans** » di mei 01, 2007 8:25 am

ZoefdeHaas schreef:
Frans schreef:
The problem with that is once a 'top' team goes up 1 or 2 goals against a weak team, they'll just sit back in cruise control for the rest of the game. That would be a lot of boring games...
not really. more teams in holland are becoming stronger, and why would a team want to be joint on points at the end in the first place?

Why would a team want to push on and score more goals when a game is already won if goal differential counts for nothing?

SE6Ajacied · Bericht door **SE6Ajacied** » di mei 01, 2007 8:49 am

Frans schreef:
ZoefdeHaas schreef:
Frans schreef:
The problem with that is once a 'top' team goes up 1 or 2 goals against a weak team, they'll just sit back in cruise control for the rest of the game. That would be a lot of boring games...
not really. more teams in holland are becoming stronger, and why would a team want to be joint on points at the end in the first place?
Why would a team want to push on and score more goals when a game is already won if goal differential counts for nothing?

I actually totally disagree with this Spanish system (which I'd not actually heard of before). All teams know the rules regarding the league before it starts and I can just imagine how much worse we'd all be feeling if (for sake of arguement), we were level on points with a goal difference of say, +22 but because we had lost 2-0 at home and only won 1-0 away to the second placed team, it was us who came second.

This system just sounds like it would reward negativity and games like ours at Feyenoord and PSV this season would become a thing of the past as you'd never want to lose by too many to another potential title challenger (that's the same now but at least with the present system a team is able to make up the difference the next week).

There's tons of room for injustices in any system but I just think the Eredivisie (and most of the rest of the world) system is better. The Spanish system sounds like something someone has cobbled together two days after their team has lost the league - was it invented by Real Madrid by any chance

SE6Ajacied · Bericht door **SE6Ajacied** » di mei 01, 2007 8:51 am

and before anyone says anything - I know

Feyenoord...title challengers :00001757.gif:

ZoefdeHaas · Bericht door **ZoefdeHaas** » di mei 01, 2007 10:29 am

I don't think I projected the system well enough. In Spain, when two teams are level points at the end of the season, head to head results are used instead of goal differences. that is not to say goal differences mean nothing. what if both teams beat each other 1-0 in their two outings?-goal differences.

but goal difference is still definatley important, as it ranks teams after points. only for the title deciding fixture it isnt the priority

Bericht door **Kowalczyk** » di mei 01, 2007 11:01 am

I don't think there's anything wrong with the way we do it in Holland.

We lost out, simple as that. Stop moaning.

The title was offered to us on a silver platter by PSV, because they lost at NEC. We f*cked it up against RKC Waalwijk. Them the title was offered to us on a silver platter by AZ, because they lost at Excelsior. Once again, we simply refused to accept the bloody thing. We played a team that had nothing left to play for and we had a little margin, but we couldn't keep up with PSV in the last fifteen minutes.

We gave everything away in November and December. We were dead and buried. Bizarrely enough, though, PSV and AZ have given us the chances to completely take our destiny into our own hands. And we fucked it up. We didn't just drop the shield on the finish line; we panicked and threw it away. Not once (Willem II away), but twice (RKC away), perhaps even thrice (Excelsior at home).

I can see a pattern there. This Ajax team can play pretty great football when they're chasing. But as soon as there is no-one ahead of them anymore, as soon as the road ahead is empty and they no longer have someone's ass to follow, they just can't fucking crack it.

PSV and AZ have given us plenty of chances. This title was there for the taking. But on the finish line PSV said: "Well, if you guys really don't want it, we'll have it after all, thanks very much."

We have no-one, absolutely no-one to blame but ourselves.

K.