28 Oct 2005: Ajax - SC Heerenveen

Bericht door **Kowalczyk** » zo okt 30, 2005 2:48 pm

Match report is up now...

http://www.ajax-usa.com/matches/m05-06/ ... nveen.html

K.

English Eagle · Bericht door **English Eagle** » zo okt 30, 2005 5:34 pm

ofey schreef:
No Fear schreef:
Rubin Stark schreef:0-0 is cool. Better than 4-3.

Anastasiou starting over Rosenberg? What?

Please bring back the Ajax swagger. It wins fans and silverware.
Rosenberg is a nitwit that has to be removed from the Ajax squad a.s.a.p. Anastasiou is the best we've got for the moment.
I couldn't agree more with the latter. A "T W I T" He's hopeless.

Can someone tell me what system Rosenberg played at Malmo,to me he looks like someone who is used to playing with another central striker in a 4-4-2 system.

Manneken Pis · Bericht door **Manneken Pis** » ma okt 31, 2005 8:53 am

Having seen the game now, I must say I'm still not panicking. They did play very well (finishing excepted of course). They controlled 95% of the game, passed fluidly, showed swagger and creativity, and were solid at the back. The issue, was and remains, a striker.....

Bericht door **Kowalczyk** » ma okt 31, 2005 9:08 am

English Eagle schreef:Can someone tell me what system Rosenberg played at Malmo,to me he looks like someone who is used to playing with another central striker in a 4-4-2 system.

That is correct...

K.

English Eagle · Bericht door **English Eagle** » ma okt 31, 2005 12:33 pm

Then can somebody explain the point of spending a large amount of money on a player who will never shine in a system that is completely "foriegn" to him.Its easy at the moment to point fingers at the strikers for not converting our chances,although nobody in our squad looks like an out & out goalscorer,but i wonder if a change in system(4-4-2) would benefit the team.

SPL · Bericht door **SPL** » ma okt 31, 2005 1:04 pm

Until we have a proper left winger ,and Mitea is out for the season and Boerrigter is only just finding his feet in the Jong Ajax, we should indeed consider 442.!!!

Philippe · Bericht door **Philippe** » ma okt 31, 2005 1:14 pm

I very much doubt that Blind will try anything else than the typical Ajax 3-4-3. And I agree with him. We can put Boukhari in the left.

Bericht door **Kowalczyk** » ma okt 31, 2005 1:14 pm

Now that the results are poor everyone starts talking about changing the formation, but I seriosuly think the formation is not the problem. Ajax played well in many of the games that they eventually failed to win. Their play looks much better than last season and in almost every game Ajax create five major chances at least.

Once a player is face-to-face with the goalkeeper it really doesn't matter in what formation the team plays.

Rosenberg is a problem, though. He hardly ever has a real scoring chance, simply because he doesn't seem to understand the system (yet?)...

K.

English Eagle · Bericht door **English Eagle** » ma okt 31, 2005 3:43 pm

I thought i would get hammered for daring to suggest a change to 4-4-2 so you have suprised me gentlemen.My point is that Rosenberg has been a bad buy because he is not a player who seems able to adapt to the system we play.If we had someone who was scoring goals i would say "oh well just one of those things" & give it time.Thing is we arent scoring goals & though we play nice football,& create chances as Ko said,the results arent coming.Im just suggesting that putting Rosenberg up front alongside another central striker might allow him more room to create & score the goals he so obviously needs confidence wise.

Per · Bericht door **Per** » ma okt 31, 2005 4:04 pm

English Eagle schreef:I thought i would get hammered for daring to suggest a change to 4-4-2 so you have suprised me gentlemen.My point is that Rosenberg has been a bad buy because he is not a player who seems able to adapt to the system we play.If we had someone who was scoring goals i would say "oh well just one of those things" & give it time.Thing is we arent scoring goals & though we play nice football,& create chances as Ko said,the results arent coming.Im just suggesting that putting Rosenberg up front alongside another central striker might allow him more room to create & score the goals he so obviously needs confidence wise.

Since it's not likely to happen I never bothered to bring it up before but I do believe that in another bat-zone, another bat-time and bat-place, ROsenberg and Charisteas would be a very good couple in a 4-4-2 system.

But Rosenberg simply does not seem to have the confidence or the adjustment qualities to grasp the no9 just yet. The only problem is that he has been given chances, even himself must think that he had a fair game on the hunt for starting 11. He does not seem to be up for it though. We'll see after the season....

English Eagle · Bericht door **English Eagle** » ma okt 31, 2005 5:50 pm

I agree Per,playing the two of them upfront together would do Harry the world of good as well.

Bericht door **Kowalczyk** » ma okt 31, 2005 6:03 pm

Per schreef:Rosenberg simply does not seem to have the confidence or the adjustment qualities to grasp the no9 just yet. The only problem is that he has been given chances, even himself must think that he had a fair game on the hunt for starting 11. He does not seem to be up for it though. We'll see after the season....

That is true.

Having said that, I want to ask all Ajax fans to not destroy the guy. He is not a shit football player; he is just having a shit first season (half season, hopefully). Let's not murder him during home games. Who knows a 'Zlatan scenario' lies ahead.

K.

bryan · Bericht door **bryan** » di nov 01, 2005 7:34 pm

I'm not saying that Ajax should play 4-4-2 long term, I'm just saying that it's stupid to waste Babel and Pienaar on the wings to accomodate a certain system. You need to play your players in their natural positions and 4-4-2 against Herenveen would have allowed Babel to play as a forward with Pienaar in centre midfield.

Adjusting your tactics in order to cater for injuries/suspensions/loss of form is pretty basic stuff that you would expect most managers to do. Stubbornly sticking by a tactic when the players you need are not available is the sign of a manager who is unwilling to take risks.

dws · Bericht door **dws** » di nov 01, 2005 9:04 pm

Kowalczyk schreef:Now that the results are poor everyone starts talking about changing the formation, but I seriosuly think the formation is not the problem. Ajax played well in many of the games that they eventually failed to win. Their play looks much better than last season and in almost every game Ajax create five major chances at least.

Once a player is face-to-face with the goalkeeper it really doesn't matter in what formation the team plays.

Rosenberg is a problem, though. He hardly ever has a real scoring chance, simply because he doesn't seem to understand the system (yet?)...

K.

Entirely agree with this post.

3-4-3/4-3-3 executed properly will enable a team to dominate/over run its opponent. Ajax has been , for the most part, proficient in the execution of its system of play; poor in taking its goal opportunities.

I recall Jan Wouters (season 88/89) stating that Ajax lost its power to dominate/overpower an opponent when playing 4-4-2.

Koeman's Ajax played 4-4-2 and created relatively few chances per game .

We should stick with our way of playing; endure the short term pain for the long term gain. Ajax will start to take its chances ; with a switch to 4-4-2 there will be fewer chances to score .... or miss ;)

bryan · Bericht door **bryan** » wo nov 02, 2005 1:35 am

I think a good team should be good at many formations and many tactics. This is how Brazil won the last world cup. They could switch from 4-2-4 to 4-4-2 and 4-5-1 like it was no problem at all. Yet when Ajax is forced by injury to play a different tactic, we don't - instead we play our best players in the wrong positions in order to accomodate the "system". Apparently our team only knows how to play using one set system and formation, and we show this off like it's something to be proud of. For too long Ajax has been putting all its eggs in the one tactical basket and has lost the ability to adapt to situations and think creatively. Football is not a system, it's a beautiful game.

Look at Vieri, one of the greatest strikers of the past 10 years, but he can't kick a ball with his right foot to save his life. That's been his downfall, defenders figured out to only mark one of his legs. Now, if he hadn't gotten all cocky and put some effort into practising shooting with his other foot, then at least he'd have had a Plan B for when the shit hits the fan. Ajax needs a Plan B, not for Ajax as such, but so the opponent doesn't know what to expect.

And I have to agree with Ko with respect to giving the players more time and not booing them. Tonight I saw the 11 million guilder rated Eric Addo appear as a PSV substitute. He has been at PSV for what seems like at least twenty seasons now, but has yet to break into the first team. I remember thinking that if he played for Ajax, we would have booed him all the way back Ghana by now. Yet there he was, coming on against AC Milan to help shut out the match.

Venezuelan Ajacied · Bericht door **Venezuelan Ajacied** » wo nov 02, 2005 5:24 am

Kowalczyk schreef:
Per schreef:Rosenberg simply does not seem to have the confidence or the adjustment qualities to grasp the no9 just yet. The only problem is that he has been given chances, even himself must think that he had a fair game on the hunt for starting 11. He does not seem to be up for it though. We'll see after the season....
That is true.

Having said that, I want to ask all Ajax fans to not destroy the guy. He is not a shit football player; he is just having a shit first season (half season, hopefully). Let's not murder him during home games. Who knows a 'Zlatan scenario' lies ahead.

K.

The problem with this situation is that we really need a good striker, if we had one nobody would be booing him in the first place, remember Zlatan's first year??? the reason the fans dident get on his back was because the team played well without him... We had Mido and Raffie scoring a whole lot of goals and whats most important we were winning...That gave Zlatan time to improve his play and become the player we were all hoping he would be.

Rosenberg needs time but ajax needs goals and we are currently not getting them or at least a whole bunch off em and whats even worse we are in a crisis situation. So the fans are going to start pointing fingers and looking for the reason for this dreadful start, i'm afraid Rosenberg might just become the Sonck part II :sad:

The Purple Cow · Bericht door **The Purple Cow** » wo nov 02, 2005 10:32 am

Before he joined Ajax Swedish football fans voted Rosenberg 'Sweden's most over-hyped footballer'. You'll often hear Ajax fans say he scored 'op de lopende band' in Sweden. In fact he didn't, his record was pretty mediocre even back then.

He scored 14 goals in a season whilst on loan to Swedish second division side Halmstads BK, but in the highest didivision his record was four goals in twelve games for Malmo.

English Eagle · Bericht door **English Eagle** » wo nov 02, 2005 3:11 pm

Good post Purple,i looked at Rosenberg's stats in Sweden as well & was amazed to see how average they were.In truth we have paid a fair amount of cash for somebody that Ajax's scouts have seen something in but is not producing the goods at the moment.Im not sure its Rosenberg's fault,or Blinds fault,that he isnt scoring.What i would question is why he was bought in the first place.

Philippe · Bericht door **Philippe** » wo nov 02, 2005 3:48 pm

that's a good question : who makes this kind of decision ?

Frans · Bericht door **Frans** » do nov 03, 2005 7:33 am

English Eagle schreef:Good post Purple,i looked at Rosenberg's stats in Sweden as well & was amazed to see how average they were.In truth we have paid a fair amount of cash for somebody that Ajax's scouts have seen something in but is not producing the goods at the moment.Im not sure its Rosenberg's fault,or Blinds fault,that he isnt scoring.What i would question is why he was bought in the first place.

Wasn't he fairly prolific in some sort of combined scandinavian league?

EDIT: To answer my own question. He was the topscorer in the 'Royal League' 7 goals in 10 games.

Either way, he won't have a hope until he's been at Ajax at least 6 months. Just like Charisteas took half a year to settle in. He should be left to develop in the youth though, not in the first team.

28 Oct 2005: Ajax - SC Heerenveen

Match Report