27 Sep 2005: Ajax - Arsenal FC

[Venezuelan Ajacied]

Man this kind of stuff hurt's
From Uefa.com

Bridging the past

Vermaelen typified his side's gauche first-half performance as he failed to assert himself against the canny visitors. It was announced last week that 12 bridges in a new park around Ajax's former De Meer home will be named after the team that monopolised the European Champions Clubs' Cup between 1971 and 1973. Based on their first-half display, it could be some time before the bridges that snake the River Amstel outside their new ground bear the names of any of the current side.

OUCH!!!!!!

[dws]

uefa.com :rocketwhore:

[__earth]

:aai: :sad: X'C

[orange goblin]

I've seen the whole game and, yes, don't think we are SO weak.
For sure our absences were heavier than Arsenal's ones. For half of an hour it really seemed juniors vs seniors.
BUT then I've seen a reaction and personality.
The real problem, in my opinion, is NOT the attack cause strikers have to be served with good passes and crosses, and possibily with speed. So the real lack of Ajax nowadays is a great, complete miedfielder a là Davids to put togheter with wesley and pienaar. it could be maduro, but it takes time.
As concerning the strikers, once again I have to defend Charisteas. Yes, it's true, he never took a chance, but he fought like a lion alone versus players like Campbell and Tourè, won a lot of duels, helped the team to take yards in the field, catched some balls in miedfield that seemed lost.
And rosenberg was more active than las game I saw.
Completely failed the experiment of Babel on the right. Other thing I have not understood was blind choice to take off Escude and Heitinga for Vermaelen. Small good news: Manucharyan had good confidence, personality and movements without the ball. Blind, try more him!
With this line-up fit I think Ajax can still do it in the group:

vonk

trabelsi grygera escude juanfran

pienaar maduro sneijder

rosales charisteas babel

[Philippe]

The brutal truth is Ajax are just not good enough for the Champions league. Tonight, Arsenal's reserve team had little problem overcoming us.
(...) Vonk should have been red-carded for the blatent penalty. What an idiot, what was he thinking?

If it was Arsenal's reserve team, it must have been Ajax' second reserve team. ;)
Arsenal did not impress me. They are very over rated. They were lucky to play with 12 men : the referee should have given a red card to Toure after his mad assault on Charisteas. Instead he offered Arenal a penalty.
My feeling still is that we will make it to the next round. As far as the CL is concerned we are playing much better than last season.

[Ayman]

We have to get Vonk out of goal and give Kenneth Vermeer a chance, ok he is only 20, but Vonk can not coach his defense, he doesnt look confident and makes me nervous. About Emanuelson, I thought he had a relatively good game, and I dont know why people are saying Boukhari was good, he was crap, he had made numerous fouls, and in my opinion was lucky not to have been sent off, the way he was carrying on with his reckless late challenge, especially outside the penalty area when that senile referee booked Grygera instead of Boukhari. Btw guys Rosales isnt as good as he was in the olympics 2004, so lets not pin our hopes on him being played at right wing. Why is everyone knocking Heitinga, the guy just needsabit of confidence and he can be back to his best. The amount of times I was screaming, shouting and swearing in the De Hems, I couldnt help it, nothing really went right, but I wont write off our chances for qualifiying for the spot , Arsenal only scraped passed Thun 2-1 at home and they play better away then at home.l

[Frans]

We have to get Vonk out of goal and give Kenneth Vermeer a chance

I have to agree with this. Vonk has been ok for a while, but he is getting on and his form is going the same way. I think he is now just an average keeper, and is not adding anything to the team. Time for him to move on (he's 35) and let the young guys have a chance to claim the spot. This is a 'transition' year after all, or so we keep hearing. Vonk won't be around when the 'rebuilding phase' is complete, so get Vermeer in now, and Stekelenberg when he is fit again.

[SE6Ajacied]

Well, I don't really know what to say - we were very very poor in the first half but much much better in the second, especially after the penalty (we definately need a new keeper by the way - I was sitting right in the corer at that end and got a birds-eye view of Vonk - completely crazy penalty to give away I felt).

It was good to see Marcus get a goal, he needed that one although having seen it on TV this morning it didn't look quite as spectacular as it did last night (from the other end of the ground).

I think Vermaelen definately "matured" as the game went on - didn't really notice him that much in the first half up the other end of the pitch but he looked assured in the second. It would have been nice to see more of Juanfran though - I've not seen him play yet, I think his first touch was from a pass and he was clear to go down the wing with it but then that wonderful referee decided to blow for a free kick (obviously never heard of playing the advantage).

A disappointing result but we did play well, especially second half and deserved a point.

On a personal note, it was great to see the team live again but please can I have a point sometime? Apart from the open day friendlies, my last four games have been PSV (0-4), Arsenal (0-1); Boca Jnrs (0-1) and now Arsenal agin :nooo: Pretty Please Ajax! a draw would do

[bryan]

I don't know why everyone, including the NOS propaganda machine, is blaming the referee. It was a clear penalty. If a goalkeeper dives at a players feet in the penalty box and totally misses the ball, well, he knows what's coming.

We need to play Super Bogdan, who has been the best Ajax goalkeeper for the last five seasons.

[dws]

I don't know why everyone, including the NOS propaganda machine, is blaming the referee. It was a clear penalty. If a goalkeeper dives at a players feet in the penalty box and totally misses the ball, well, he knows what's coming.

bryan it clearly was NOT a penalty. Reyes is guilty of simulation. He made contact with Vonk, in fact he directed himself into the Ajax keeper and was in the process of diving when he connected with the keeper. A dive is a dive bryan, you pretty much admit that in your statement.

[English Eagle]

Havent seen the whole game & have only seen the highlights so im going to say what my 12 year old says,he saw the game & is a good judge.He thought Ajax were poor,not in terms of passing the ball around but creating chances,they looked a bit predictable.He thought Pienaar played well,but then he loves the guy,& thought Charisteas was c**p.(his words not mine).Having seen the goals i must say i really dont rate Vonk,he goes to ground to quickly for the first & the second is a penalty without doubt.We can shout all we like about the dive & the fact the Vonk withdraws his hands into his body,but he makes contact with the man & not the ball . . .its a foul.We have conceded some soft goals this season & having someone who can communicate better to his defence would improve the situation.

SE6 stay away for gods sake,you are a jinx. :xyxthumbs:

[dws]

NOT a penalty. :stern: :fundamentje:


If you saw a penalty.... :pinkelephant: :pinkelephant: :pinkelephant:

[English Eagle]

[DanK]

It was a penalty because the ref gave it. Even if we think it wasn't, does it make one bit of difference now? Nope.

Still think we can finish 2nd.

[bluedaddy19]

Having seen the goals i must say i really dont rate Vonk,he goes to ground to quickly for the first & the second is a penalty without doubt.We can shout all we like about the dive & the fact the Vonk withdraws his hands into his body,but he makes contact with the man & not the ball . . .its a foul.

OMFG!!!!!! reyes initiated contact and dove like a bitch, planned to the whole way - he never had any intention of going for goal, not one

i am so sick of seeing this kind of tactic rewarded AND excused

[Philippe]

It should have been red for Toure :redcard: , and yellow for Reyes :nooo: .

Of course we can finish second.

We can even finish first.

one last thing, Charisteas was good yesterday, just for those who actually have not seen the game ....

[jakobg]

I also think it was a penalty. Smart move by Reyes. He saw the keeper wouldn't reach the ball, touched it a little and just waited for Vonk to be in his way. Vonk on the other hand could have been a bit more cold, and not throwing himself as a madman, knowing that he would be there with his hands on Reyes legs.

Sure, Reyes was looking for the penalty, but I don't think the ref is to be blamed. This one was on Vonk.

[dws]

Bluedaddy are you aware that ArnoldVdh on Big soccer boards is an F'nerd fan? No doubt he will be on the bbc boards(6o6) slagging of Ajax with his fellow kakkerlaken and ADO supporting friends.

[aveslacker]

i am so sick of seeing this kind of tactic rewarded AND excused

Absolutely. Unfortunately, this kind of thing is getting more and more pervasive. :pukey:

[Cedric]

It was a penalty, only because Reyes was much more smarter than Vonk, :sad: Vonk made a mistake, he was punished, that's all. Maybe it's unfair, but the referee can't be blamed for this...

And if Ajax can't deal with a bad referee, what are they able to do ? It was a Champion's League game, you've got to be strong enough to overcome this, else you can stay at home...

[aveslacker]

It was a penalty, only because Reyes was much more smarter than Vonk, :sad: Vonk made a mistake, he was punished, that's all. Maybe it's unfair, but the referee can't be blamed for this...

So you're saying that the referee can't be blamed for making a bad call and awarding a penalty to a dive? That doesn't make sense. That's the job of the referee - to officiate the game. He can and must take responsibility for bad calls, just like the players must take responsibility for poor play, etc.

And if Ajax can't deal with a bad referee, what are they able to do ? It was a Champion's League game, you've got to be strong enough to overcome this, else you can stay at home...

Agreed. A good team should be able to overcome any poor calls by the officials.

[Cedric]

I'm not sure I said it was a bad call... When you have the time to analyse the occasion, it's easy to say what you want, but when you're on the field, and you see a 'crazy' keeper rushing out of his goal only to catch some legs, for me, it's a foul.
And if you see with video that Reyes directed himself into Vonk, you can also see that Vonk completely missed the ball whereas he didn't even had to dive because Reyes had already missed its chance... That's the mistake and so he was an easy prey for a vicious player. So I don't think the referee is to be blamed if he didn't see what a vicious player did... That's my point.

Anyway Ajax can do mistakes, but a referee can't ? Is it serious ? No, and we agree on the fact that a good team must overcame the (good or bad)calls of a referee. Ajax lost, draw your conclusion... ;)

I don't think Ajax is that bad though, two mistakes were fatal yesterday (Emanuelson/Boukhari and Vonk), but overall, it wasn't that bad. It's always the same story (lack of concentration and too many chances wasted), but I think it will improve. I hope it will be before FC Thun...

[SPL]

Reyes looked for the penalty but Vonk was at fault , he did not need to go diving like a madman .

One point Pienaar for all his ability cannot score goals, he missed a sitter before half time.Surely a NO 10 playmaker should be a goalscorer. He never will be.

It was a shame we had alot of injuries for last night as Arsenal are not that good at present and the presence of Escude Trabelsi and Sneijder would likely have made the difference.Neither side has a chance of winning the competition.

With Veira gone and not replaced and Henry injured they are just an above average english side and not in the same class as Chelski. If they do not win anything this season expect to see Henry leave.

[Cedric]

Escudé is on the bench since two or three games, so I think it's Blind's choice that he doesn't play... So you can forget him as an injured player (maybe he still suffer from his back, but I haven't read this, this is why I think it's Blind that benchs him).

[bluedaddy19]

I'm not sure I said it was a bad call... When you have the time to analyse the occasion, it's easy to say what you want, but when you're on the field, and you see a 'crazy' keeper rushing out of his goal only to catch some legs, for me, it's a foul.
And if you see with video that Reyes directed himself into Vonk, you can also see that Vonk completely missed the ball whereas he didn't even had to dive because Reyes had already missed its chance... That's the mistake and so he was an easy prey for a vicious player. So I don't think the referee is to be blamed if he didn't see what a vicious player did... That's my point.

Anyway Ajax can do mistakes, but a referee can't ? Is it serious ? No, and we agree on the fact that a good team must overcame the (good or bad)calls of a referee. Ajax lost, draw your conclusion... ;)

stop making excuses for the piece of crap referee and stop acting like he only made one "mistake" on the night, this is getting ridiculous - let's not forget that toure cracked open harry's skull as last man back... where's the red? there was quite obviously two different sets of rules out on that pitch last night

AJAX = 60% possession
arsenal = 65% of the free kicks

try drawing a conclusion on that

did pienaar miss a sitter? sure... could AJAX have created a few more chances? of course... what margin did arsenal win the game by? last time i checked, it was 2-1 on a pires garbage penalty