29 Jan 2012: Feyenoord - Ajax

[Manneken Pis]

"I would say it seems like playing without heart, nerve, "one-touch" passing as if we are brazil and all that we watch every week. if you dont like the word gay, please feel free to use another..."

Hmm... yes we were crap, not to be confused with anyone's sexual orientation....

I'm going to be simple about this.....
Alexander the Great was gay ... and he did have this problem.
So just park your personal opinions and focus on the (not good) football.

End of soap box speech.

Cheers,

MP

[souras84]

dont worry. no feelings hurt. although the truth remains the truth, we are playing SOFT

[Orange14]

11 tegen 11 analysis of today's match is up: http://11tegen11.wordpress.com/2012/01/ ... ossession/

[souras84]

I guess FdB doesnt read those or think about any critisism...

[SPL]

Just looking back to those last 6 league games of last season when we stormed to the title and 7 of todays team played regularly in those games. Missing are Boilesen who actually only played 2 full games in that time plus Toby and Greg . de Zeeuw now gone but he was only a sub most of the time . Enoh also was sub alot .
Newcomers Siggy and Boerrigter plus Boilesen are the 3 main injured players this season so we have in fact relied on the same squad except Vermeer for Steks and Janssen for de Zeeuw. They have struggled a lot this season though but of course have played 6 tough CL games.

As I said earlier the big problem has been mistakes in the defence and the fact that we started the season with only 1 left back ,and he was just out the youth team, is down to bad management . Also having just 2 others as cover both inadequate is also down to bad management .Lets face it last season no one rated Blind and thought Ooijer was just about at the end .

I was over the moon with de Boer earlier in the season and its not his fault we have had 3 key injuries although thats now up to 5. Winning without a striker worked in the short term last season but not this. Janssen has been a waste of time but played well last season . Frank is not going to admit he is wrong on Janssen but I have yet to see him do anything
and 2 weeks ago in Brazil Bouy ,a youth, came on and looked better!!!

Where to go from here? If Cruyff wins Frank will stay and next season we can expect about 5or 6 A1 youth team in the squad plus 4 or 5 other Jong Ajax kids . IF Cruyff loses then V Gaal will be coach and de Boer Bergkamp and all those old players now coaching will be gone and I bet there wont be all those youth in the squad.

Sorry I am jumping ahead to next season .This season try and finish 3rd or 4th and get into Europa Cup I suppose, as that at least will be good experience ie. going all over Russia and East Europe!!

[SE6Ajacied]

End of soap box speech.

Cheers,

MP

Cheers MP, think that made my point for me - I've been out and come back home so won't get my soap box out again. Re the Oxford City player though (and seeing as I was asked) I'm not 100% sure of exactly what was said but I am aware of the context of what was said which to my mind is what matters.

[Orange14]

@SPL, good analysis. Thing I really can't figure out is why our defense is just so terrible this season as compared to last. Discounting the injuries we have still put out the pretty much the same back 5 that closed the season last year (Vermeer, Anita, Jan, Toby, and Greg) and they quite frankly have played poorly costing us points directly (particularly Vermeer and Greg). I still maintain that the acquisition of Janssen was just foolish. He has not done anything that I can remember to make his presence a factor on the pitch. I agree with you about Van Gaal vs Cruyff. Van Gaal will only come aboard as the trainer (and maybe running all the football stuff as well). I cannot see him in some titular position at all. If this happens the club will regress. Cruyff's vision for the youth set up is the only one that will get us out of the spot we are in now. What is most appalling to me is how slow this team is on offense. Unless they get a clear breakaway, they are just not able to free up anyone to get a shot on goal. Maybe it was just the individual brilliance of Suarez that made things so very different (and unfortunately our one consistent offensive player Boerrigter has been out for several months now).

I'm not so sure that a Europa League spot is a given at this point since we are now level on points with Heerenveen (play them away) and Feyenoord and only ahead on GD.

[souras84]

End of soap box speech.

Cheers,

MP

Cheers MP, think that made my point for me - I've been out and come back home so won't get my soap box out again. Re the Oxford City player though (and seeing as I was asked) I'm not 100% sure of exactly what was said but I am aware of the context of what was said which to my mind is what matters.

Have in mind that I never tried to insult anyone. But in Greece, when analysing certain apsects of mens sports, the word gay is used as a characterization to make a point that a certain behaviour is soft or not acceptable for the sports needs. So I hope you know what I meant. And I say that because I never want to bo considered as somebody who is a racist or anything. Words are used and when we lack eye to eye contact so we can better explain what we mean, these missunderstandings might occur. Sorry for bringing it up again...

[Orange14]

End of soap box speech.

Cheers,

MP

Cheers MP, think that made my point for me - I've been out and come back home so won't get my soap box out again. Re the Oxford City player though (and seeing as I was asked) I'm not 100% sure of exactly what was said but I am aware of the context of what was said which to my mind is what matters.

Have in mind that I never tried to insult anyone. But in Greece, when analysing certain apsects of mens sports, the word gay is used as a characterization to make a point that a certain behaviour is soft or not acceptable for the sports needs. So I hope you know what I meant. And I say that because I never want to bo considered as somebody who is a racist or anything. Words are used and when we lack eye to eye contact so we can better explain what we mean, these missunderstandings might occur. Sorry for bringing it up again...

In addition, certain slang words relating to particular parts of the female body are often used in a similar manner in referring to male football players (need to be explicit here since there are some pretty decent women football players these days). Such terms are also not wise to use. It would be better if we all stuck to common terms such as lazy, soft, terrible, excellent.........

Anyway, all is forgiven and let's right this ship that is half submerged!!!

[Philippe]

We simply miss too many key players (no less than six for this game), so it’s very difficult to draw conclusions.
I liked Vertonghen, as well as Vermeer’s crazy moves.
The referee was poor (no penalty on first goal, and fourth seemed offside).
The atmosphere around the pitch was full of hatred.

[souras84]

We simply miss too many key players (no less than six for this game), so it’s very difficult to draw conclusions.
I liked Vertonghen, as well as Vermeer’s crazy moves.
The referee was poor (no penalty on first goal, and fourth seemed offside).
The atmosphere around the pitch was full of hatred.

I agree, but most of the time the team doesnt convince us that otherwise they would secure the result, which MAY not be deserved. Still not sure if Vermeer could be characterized as a very good keeper

[Orange14]

The atmosphere around the pitch was full of hatred.

I think it was the first corner taken by Janssen where a lot of stuff was being thrown from the stands. I wonder what the KNVB would have done if FdB would have withdrawn the club and claimed that players' safety was in danger!

[Philippe]

The KNVB should invest in teaching referees. Far too many blunders.

[aveslacker]

Thing I really can't figure out is why our defense is just so terrible this season as compared to last. Discounting the injuries we have still put out the pretty much the same back 5 that closed the season last year (Vermeer, Anita, Jan, Toby, and Greg) and they quite frankly have played poorly costing us points directly (particularly Vermeer and Greg). I still maintain that the acquisition of Janssen was just foolish.

I think this is the problem right here. For one thing, Greg hasn't played very well in a while and Vermeer has been shakier than expected. But the biggest thing is that playing Janssen as a deep-lying midfielder simply doesn't work. Having a mobile, active defender in that position takes a lot of the pressure off the defense. Janssen is none of those things.

[Over Pasanens Head]

How about that we just over achieved last season and that this is really our level.

[Kowalczyk]

How about that we just over achieved last season and that this is really our level.

Hmm, I dunno...

It sounds like a lame, blind 'fan thing' to say, but I think Ajax would have comfortably won this one with Alderweireld, Boerrigter and Sigthórsson in the team (and I'm not even mentioning Van der Wiel, as I'm not a fan of his).

Feyenoord deserved the win, but they beat a very injury-battered Ajax team - and Ajax were still easily the better playing side in the first half hour. They already had De Kuip quiet after Eriksen's goal. The home crowd was already thinking: oh please God, not again...

Then Feyenoord got a penalty that should not have been given - and everything changed. I am the first to admit that Ajax collapsed in grotesque style after that penalty (a half-decent football team with a healthy fighting spirit wouldn't have fallen apart like that) and that Feyenoord totally deserved the win.

But I don't think the second half of this Classic was "really our level" - no.

For many months, Frank de Boer did a great job in protecting his team from the ugliness and negativity of the 'Cruijff War'. The team did not seem affected, but they're starting to feel it now, the thick black cloud of negativity that is hanging over the ArenA is starting to affect the team's performance. It is getting harder and harder to do your work properly at Ajax, at the moment. That, combined with the fact that we we were missing two key players in defense and two key players in the forward line... was a bit too much for Ajax last Sunday.

Another lame 'fan thing' to say...

We have to keep in mind that Ajax have been more than a little bit unfortunate at a number of key moments.

We had a half-decent run in the Champions League, but crashed out of it in a very very bitter way: two goals that should have stood disallowed against Real Madrid and a very stinky 1-7 result in Zagreb.

In the cup, against AZ, we were 1-0 up when some lunatic decided to attack the AZ 'keeper. In the replay AZ were the better side, but the score was 2-2 until they got a highly controversial penalty to make it 2-3.

In the league we would have beaten Twente at home if Jan Vertonghen's perfectly good goal had stood. That would have been 2-0 and game over. The penalty at De Kuip had its influence on the game, too. This was the second major game in which a bad call from the referee made things a whole lot more difficult for Ajax, to say the least.

Mind you: I can accept that, I am not paranoid and I don't think it's a conspiracy. I am not saying we would have won all of these games without the referee error. But I do think we should at least take it into consideration before we slaughter our boys. I don't think I'm being unreasonably subjective when I say that Ajax have been a bit unfortunate at a number of important moments. That can happen, no 'chip on my shoulder', but it's a fact nonetheless.

K.

[Philippe]

I'm with you on that, Ko.

[SPL]

100% with your thoughts Ko

[Orange14]

+1; stuff happens in football as well as in life but the sun always comes up in the morning for another day. It's always difficult to forget the injustices and other bad stuff but we have to stay optimistic. As the great American baseball sage, Yogi Berra, said, "it ain't over 'till it's over." Until we are mathmatically eliminated from the title race I will continue to believe and watch our matches.

FORZA Ajax!

[gordonvandekamp]

I agree with the above, but would make one other point.

In sports, it seems the really good teams are the ones with the mental strength to overcome adversity and fight back when things don't go their way. That's something that Ajax has seemed to be lacking for awhile now and don't see it changing anytime soon.

I think the penalty against Fword is a good example. Instead of committing themselves more, they just collapsed. It is a young squad, which may be part of it, but I also don't see that anywhere else in the organization at the moment (the board, management, or even coaching staff).

We certainly have had our share of bad luck this year and I do think we would have shown to be much better without the injuries. Kind of telling that Sigthorrson is our second leading scorer and hasn't played in 4 months.

[Tom_]

Sure, we were a bit unlucky with the refereeing, but we have problems both with the quality of our squad and our tactics.

There are a couple of interesting articles about this game—there's a post on 11tegen11, and there's this post as well, which is written in Dutch but Google-translated to English.

P.S. When Dutch articles talk about 'duels' between players, are they referring to tackles?

[Cedric]

I don't think I'm being unreasonably subjective when I say that Ajax have been a bit unfortunate at a number of important moments. That can happen, no 'chip on my shoulder', but it's a fact nonetheless.

I would say "shit happens", but it happens more often when you're 'shit'.
Each incident is turning into a drama (goal/defeat/injury/lawsuit...). There was a time when Feyenoord could only dream of winning against a depleted Ajax, even with dubious calls...

[Orange14]

Sure, we were a bit unlucky with the refereeing, but we have problems both with the quality of our squad and our tactics.

There are a couple of interesting articles about this game—there's a post on 11tegen11, and there's this post as well, which is written in Dutch but Google-translated to English.

P.S. When Dutch articles talk about 'duels' between players, are they referring to tackles?

I think it's when a player is challenged and whether or not he loses the ball; it doesn't have to be a tackle since most of these end up being toe pokes. thanks or the Catenaccio link (funny name for a Dutch football website). On the same site there is an even better analysis of the game HERE.

[Tom_]

I think it's when a player is challenged and whether or not he loses the ball; it doesn't have to be a tackle since most of these end up being toe pokes. thanks or the Catenaccio link (funny name for a Dutch football website). On the same site there is an even better analysis of the game HERE.

Interesting, I had interpreted it as when a defender challenges a player with the ball... if he gets the ball, he 'wins the duel'. I wonder which it is?

[Over Pasanens Head]

100% with your thoughts Ko

It sounds like a load of excuses to me but if it comes from the keyboard of Ko it must be right