Almost two weeks until the next game (Ajax vs Heracles on 15 October), but after that it's only three days until the next Champions League fixture: Ajax vs FC Thun. It will be the moment of truth. A point in Prague? Acceptable. Losing to Arsenal? Nothing to be ashamed of. But if we want to make it through this group (which we really should, being the 'pot 2 team' in it) this is one we will have to win. No more excuses now. Three points!
K.
18 Oct 2005: Ajax - FC Thun
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Kowalczyk
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18 Oct 2005: Ajax - FC Thun
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ZoefdeHaas
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Since returning to champions league competition in 02/03 we have won all but one of our home fixtures versus lower ranked opposition. If home form means anything we should win this match.
ps Sparta will be without newly appointed captain Tomas Sivok for the rest of the group stage. Sivok sustained a Knee injury and will probably not resume playing untill March.(uefa.com)
ps Sparta will be without newly appointed captain Tomas Sivok for the rest of the group stage. Sivok sustained a Knee injury and will probably not resume playing untill March.(uefa.com)
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AsgAarD_xxx
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And that kind of teams are very hard to beat. Our players might be frustrated when all the Thun's players will be on their half. I suppose it won't be the most beautiful game to view, but- as Menno said- we must win this game.dws schreef:Thun use a 4-5-1 formation. Goal attempts v Sparta 9..... v Arsenal 4...
Seems to indicate a very defensive team.
PS: 5 years ago FC Thun was in 4th division in Switzerland. Now they play in Champions League and have no complexes in games with clubs like Arsenal. RESPECT!
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aveslacker
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The way you beat this team is quite simple. When you have an opportunity at goal, you take it. There is no doubt that Ajax will create opportunities. They must finish them. Make a defensive team go a goal down, and the complexion of the game changes.
It would also help to have someone give their lone forward a charley horse so that he can't run.
It would also help to have someone give their lone forward a charley horse so that he can't run.
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Venezuelan Ajacied
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I dont really know why, but i think this game is going to be somewhat "open", just a hunch though...AsgAarD_xxx schreef:And that kind of teams are very hard to beat. Our players might be frustrated when all the Thun's players will be on their half. I suppose it won't be the most beautiful game to view, but- as Menno said- we must win this game.dws schreef:Thun use a 4-5-1 formation. Goal attempts v Sparta 9..... v Arsenal 4...
Seems to indicate a very defensive team.
PS: 5 years ago FC Thun was in 4th division in Switzerland. Now they play in Champions League and have no complexes in games with clubs like Arsenal. RESPECT!
If the news of Sivok is correct we have absolutely no excuse for not macking through to the second round, Sparta without Poborsky and Sivok makes them the favorites to end last, that just leaves the Thun, come on guy's their serving us the group on a silver platter we cant fall this low.
Go AJAX!!!!!!
AJAX 4-2 Thun :cheer: :eusa_dance:
BRING IT ON !!!!...
I think we have a strong chance of beating them at home, its when we play them away which is going to be daunting, I really dont want Thun to go down in the same archive as Lausanne, Copenhagen and most recently Maccabi Tel Aviv. I can see Arsenal dropping points away to Thun and Sparta Prague, but my main concern is the away game at Thun. We must top this group so we can be paired with a team like F.C Porto, wouldnt that be interesting, meeting Co Adriaanse, and him meeting his former foes (even though by that time Arie van Eijden wont be there) but he does have a bit of a grudge against Ajax, and Porto are crap now not even half the team they were 2 seasons ago, thats only my dream scenario though.
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Van der Vaart
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Venezuelan Ajacied
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I would rather kick Koeman's Benfica's ass in the second round. ;)Ayman schreef:I think we have a strong chance of beating them at home, its when we play them away which is going to be daunting, I really dont want Thun to go down in the same archive as Lausanne, Copenhagen and most recently Maccabi Tel Aviv. I can see Arsenal dropping points away to Thun and Sparta Prague, but my main concern is the away game at Thun. We must top this group so we can be paired with a team like F.C Porto, wouldnt that be interesting, meeting Co Adriaanse, and him meeting his former foes (even though by that time Arie van Eijden wont be there) but he does have a bit of a grudge against Ajax, and Porto are crap now not even half the team they were 2 seasons ago, thats only my dream scenario though.
BRING IT ON !!!!...
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AsgAarD_xxx
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Arsenal have just underestimated them, Sparta Prague was a little bit confused because of their problems with coach and Karel Poborsky... We are in better situation, because we know that it's not as bad team as we thought just after CL draw. I think that even without few players from first squad we should (or rather must) win this game. We need 6 points in 2 games against Thun and nothing less than 3 points in last 2 games to qualify for sure. And I really don't believe that we can't do that.
COME ON AJAX!!
COME ON AJAX!!
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Kowalczyk
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Here are my thoughts on the Thun game (and, as a matter of fact, our entire Champions League campaign).
Normally, in a more or less normal Champions League group, 10 points are enough to advance. Which means, reasonably, that Ajax must grab 6 against Thun and 4 against Sparta. Anything against Arsenal would be a bonus. This was what I thought at the start of the campaign.
I am not saying that one point after two games is a 'good start' and of course we should have beaten Sparta by a lightyear... but, in a way, you can say that everything is going 'according to plan' so far. It's just that we started with two fixtures that normally belong to the toughest three of the campaign. The situation of Sparta Prague is far worse at the moment: for them to finish second they require 6 points against Thun and 4 against Ajax. Which means that a point at home (!) against Ajax and a defeat in Switzerland is a seriously shit start, because they face Arsenal twice in the two middle games.
Back to Ajax.
We are now at the turning point: we now get the three 'easiest' fixtures of the campaign in a row. We must start grabbing points now. In fact: these are the three games from which we must get nine points if we want to advance. If we grab only six, or even seven, we might find ourselves in the position of having to notch a result in London. Which is not impossible (Arsenal are more vulnerable at home and will almost certainly have won the group by the time we go there), but it's not nice if you have to get a result there.
In other words: there is no reason for panic based on the results so far, but from now on there are no more excuses. We will have to start doing the business now. These are the games for it. If we do not beat Thun at home, we are almost certainly f*cked, if you ask me. As simple as that. Thun at home is a final. All or nothing.
I would be seriously depressed if we don't advance. This is the perfect season for it, for the following reasons:
1. Seeding
We were in pot 3 for the draw in recent seasons and, based on our results in recent years, we could have been in pot 4 (and we still can be in upcoming seasons). But due to the absence of teams such as Deportivo, Leverkusen and Monaco, plus the elimination of some seeded teams in the qualifying rounds, we found ourselves in pot 2, which means that there is only one side in this group that has performed better in Europe than Ajax (namely: Arsenal). We are supposed to be stronger than the other two. If you're in pot 3 you will have to 'over-achieve' in order to advance (because you'll have to finish ahead of a side that has been better than you in recent years). Last season was a perfect example: Juventus (pot 1) and Bayern Munich (pot 2). If you're in pot 2 the second slot in the group is supposed to be your 'natural position', which means you're under-achieving if you finish third. In this group, all we have to do is perform normally -- and we'll advance.
2. Draw / Opponents
As you know, there are four pots of eight teams for the draw (based on the UEFA ranking), and each group is put together by drawing one team from each pot. Group B has the 'weakest' side from pot 1 (Arsenal, #8 in pot 1), the weakest side from pot 2 (Ajax, #8 in pot 2), the fifth side from pot 3 (Sparta Prague; that's the 'bottom half' of pot 3) and the weakest-but-one side from pot 4 (FC Thun, #7 in pot 4). Which means - let's face it - that this os probably the weakest Champions League group ever. It's pretty ridiculous already that a team like Ajax can be in pot 2 in the first place, but even if we ignore that fact: one of the weaker sides from each pot was drawn into group B.
3. Fixture List
Playing the toughest game (the away game at the 'pot 1' side) on the last matchday is always a good thing, because there's a more than fair chance that they will already have qualified by then. Also, it's a very good thing to play the pot 4 team in the two middle fixtures, so that you exactly know what the situation is in the group and how many points are required.
Conclusion: we have the perfect situation this season. We've been pretty damned fortunate in every f*cking thinkable way this season. If we don't make it now, we probably never will.
Right. Back to the practical situation.
If we look at the recent Champions League campaigns we will find that Ajax did manage wins over their 'pot 4 opponents' at home (Club Brugge in 2003 and Maccabi Tel Aviv in 2004), but suffered fatal away defeats against the same sides. Bruges and Tel Aviv were the places where we committed suicide
This leads me to believe that (if we manage to beat them at home) Thun away will be the key game. We did not win European away game since the fall of 2002 (Olympique Lyon) and this and that series of piss-poor European results on the road must be brought to and end. The place for that is Berne, Switzerland and the time is November 2nd, 20:45 CET. Period. We absolutely must grab a win there (and, of course, beat them at home, otherwise you can just forget about this entire post and accept our elimination).
The #2 slot is our 'natural position' in this group and if we come up with sorry excuses for not advancing from this group, we've become a very, very sad little club that his flushed all of its pride down the toilet.
Thanks for listening.
K.
Normally, in a more or less normal Champions League group, 10 points are enough to advance. Which means, reasonably, that Ajax must grab 6 against Thun and 4 against Sparta. Anything against Arsenal would be a bonus. This was what I thought at the start of the campaign.
I am not saying that one point after two games is a 'good start' and of course we should have beaten Sparta by a lightyear... but, in a way, you can say that everything is going 'according to plan' so far. It's just that we started with two fixtures that normally belong to the toughest three of the campaign. The situation of Sparta Prague is far worse at the moment: for them to finish second they require 6 points against Thun and 4 against Ajax. Which means that a point at home (!) against Ajax and a defeat in Switzerland is a seriously shit start, because they face Arsenal twice in the two middle games.
Back to Ajax.
We are now at the turning point: we now get the three 'easiest' fixtures of the campaign in a row. We must start grabbing points now. In fact: these are the three games from which we must get nine points if we want to advance. If we grab only six, or even seven, we might find ourselves in the position of having to notch a result in London. Which is not impossible (Arsenal are more vulnerable at home and will almost certainly have won the group by the time we go there), but it's not nice if you have to get a result there.
In other words: there is no reason for panic based on the results so far, but from now on there are no more excuses. We will have to start doing the business now. These are the games for it. If we do not beat Thun at home, we are almost certainly f*cked, if you ask me. As simple as that. Thun at home is a final. All or nothing.
I would be seriously depressed if we don't advance. This is the perfect season for it, for the following reasons:
1. Seeding
We were in pot 3 for the draw in recent seasons and, based on our results in recent years, we could have been in pot 4 (and we still can be in upcoming seasons). But due to the absence of teams such as Deportivo, Leverkusen and Monaco, plus the elimination of some seeded teams in the qualifying rounds, we found ourselves in pot 2, which means that there is only one side in this group that has performed better in Europe than Ajax (namely: Arsenal). We are supposed to be stronger than the other two. If you're in pot 3 you will have to 'over-achieve' in order to advance (because you'll have to finish ahead of a side that has been better than you in recent years). Last season was a perfect example: Juventus (pot 1) and Bayern Munich (pot 2). If you're in pot 2 the second slot in the group is supposed to be your 'natural position', which means you're under-achieving if you finish third. In this group, all we have to do is perform normally -- and we'll advance.
2. Draw / Opponents
As you know, there are four pots of eight teams for the draw (based on the UEFA ranking), and each group is put together by drawing one team from each pot. Group B has the 'weakest' side from pot 1 (Arsenal, #8 in pot 1), the weakest side from pot 2 (Ajax, #8 in pot 2), the fifth side from pot 3 (Sparta Prague; that's the 'bottom half' of pot 3) and the weakest-but-one side from pot 4 (FC Thun, #7 in pot 4). Which means - let's face it - that this os probably the weakest Champions League group ever. It's pretty ridiculous already that a team like Ajax can be in pot 2 in the first place, but even if we ignore that fact: one of the weaker sides from each pot was drawn into group B.
3. Fixture List
Playing the toughest game (the away game at the 'pot 1' side) on the last matchday is always a good thing, because there's a more than fair chance that they will already have qualified by then. Also, it's a very good thing to play the pot 4 team in the two middle fixtures, so that you exactly know what the situation is in the group and how many points are required.
Conclusion: we have the perfect situation this season. We've been pretty damned fortunate in every f*cking thinkable way this season. If we don't make it now, we probably never will.
Right. Back to the practical situation.
If we look at the recent Champions League campaigns we will find that Ajax did manage wins over their 'pot 4 opponents' at home (Club Brugge in 2003 and Maccabi Tel Aviv in 2004), but suffered fatal away defeats against the same sides. Bruges and Tel Aviv were the places where we committed suicide
This leads me to believe that (if we manage to beat them at home) Thun away will be the key game. We did not win European away game since the fall of 2002 (Olympique Lyon) and this and that series of piss-poor European results on the road must be brought to and end. The place for that is Berne, Switzerland and the time is November 2nd, 20:45 CET. Period. We absolutely must grab a win there (and, of course, beat them at home, otherwise you can just forget about this entire post and accept our elimination).
The #2 slot is our 'natural position' in this group and if we come up with sorry excuses for not advancing from this group, we've become a very, very sad little club that his flushed all of its pride down the toilet.
Thanks for listening.
K.
Laatst gewijzigd door Kowalczyk op vr okt 07, 2005 12:31 pm, 1 keer totaal gewijzigd.
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ZoefdeHaas
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Venezuelan Ajacied
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Ok people while ajax was sleepwalking at home, the Thun had a goal fest 5-1 against Saint Galen, the goal scorers were:
N. Ferreira
13' [2 - 0] R. Gelson
27' [3 - 0] M. Lustrinelli
31' [4 - 0] R. Gelson
62' [5 - 0] N. Ferreira
We better take note of these guys or the Thun might just give us a big Thump. Come on lads enough of the bullshit lets get down to bussines and kick some swiss cheese ass.
Go Ajax !!!!!!!!
N. Ferreira
13' [2 - 0] R. Gelson
27' [3 - 0] M. Lustrinelli
31' [4 - 0] R. Gelson
62' [5 - 0] N. Ferreira
We better take note of these guys or the Thun might just give us a big Thump. Come on lads enough of the bullshit lets get down to bussines and kick some swiss cheese ass.
Go Ajax !!!!!!!!
BRING IT ON !!!!...
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ZoefdeHaas
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Kowalczyk
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Congratulations to the chairman of the YMSM (Yannis Must Stay Movement), our good mate SE6Ajacied. According to De Telegraaf Ajax will start in the following formation tomorrow evening...
------------------------------- Stekelenburg ---------------------------------
-- Trabelsi ---------- Grygera ------------- Maduro ------- Emanuelson ---
--------Galasek -------------- Lindenbergh ------------ Sneijder -----------
-- Rosales -------------------- Anastasiou ------------------- Babel --------
And I must say: I agree. Chari is injured and Rosenberg must be protected at the moment. He's not ready for this game. Anastasiou played well against Sparta and Heracles and he understands the role of a number 9 at Ajax better than anyone else at the moment. Good for him.
K.
------------------------------- Stekelenburg ---------------------------------
-- Trabelsi ---------- Grygera ------------- Maduro ------- Emanuelson ---
--------Galasek -------------- Lindenbergh ------------ Sneijder -----------
-- Rosales -------------------- Anastasiou ------------------- Babel --------
And I must say: I agree. Chari is injured and Rosenberg must be protected at the moment. He's not ready for this game. Anastasiou played well against Sparta and Heracles and he understands the role of a number 9 at Ajax better than anyone else at the moment. Good for him.
K.
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aveslacker
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Despite the poor finishing and general state of near panic among this club's fans, I'm optimistic (then again, I usually am). I predict a much-needed win.Kowalczyk schreef:Congratulations to the chairman of the YMSM (Yannis Must Stay Movement), our good mate SE6Ajacied. According to De Telegraaf Ajax will start in the following formation tomorrow evening...
------------------------------- Stekelenburg ---------------------------------
-- Trabelsi ---------- Grygera ------------- Maduro ------- Emanuelson ---
--------Galasek -------------- Lindenbergh ------------ Sneijder -----------
-- Rosales -------------------- Anastasiou ------------------- Babel --------
And I must say: I agree. Chari is injured and Rosenberg must be protected at the moment. He's not ready for this game. Anastasiou played well against Sparta and Heracles and he understands the role of a number 9 at Ajax better than anyone else at the moment. Good for him.
K.
At some point, these chances are going to start going in, in a big way. Somewhere down the line, Ajax is going to crush a team by putting away all of its chances. Hopefully it is tomorrow. If not, perhaps against PSV. Someday, I swear... :xyxthumbs:
AFC Ajax
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Kowalczyk
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This is super-cool stuff!! UEFA.com doesn't only have a match preview, but you can also download the entire 27-page press kit for Ajax vs FC Thun (PDF file). Check it out. 27 pages of information on this game!
http://www.uefa.com/printoutfiles/compe ... 284_PK.pdf
K.
http://www.uefa.com/printoutfiles/compe ... 284_PK.pdf
K.
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SE6Ajacied
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What the hell did we do before internet?Kowalczyk schreef:This is super-cool stuff!! UEFA.com doesn't only have a match preview, but you can also download the entire 27-page press kit for Ajax vs FC Thun (PDF file). Check it out. 27 pages of information on this game!
http://www.uefa.com/printoutfiles/compe ... 284_PK.pdf
K.
Great stuff :bis:
Why do you build me up? BUTTERCUP!
Nice twist. But my senses tell me that the stage is set ideally for ontother sensational result by that odd Swiss team whom nobody will ever hear about after this season. Our guys will be nervous as hell and thus unable to break te Thun defense with creative play. Naturally we will be 'surprised' by one or two fast breaks. Dark days lay ahead. Sigh.Kowalczyk schreef:Here are my thoughts on etc etc etc.
But I could be totally wrong. :cheer:
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ZoefdeHaas
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