22 Apr 2007: Ajax - Sparta Rotterdam

[bluedaddy19]

AZ use a 4-4-2 to great effect . They play with a winger (Jenner) on the left of midfield and a second striker(usually Martens) who takes up wide positions as required ... in other words, they play 4-4-2 in a way that is suited to players that normally play in a 4-3-3 formation.

okaaaaaay but we are not AZ :yes:

last 3 AJAX 442 league games: PSV, AZ, RKC

those who do not learn from history are condemned to repeat it!

[Kowalczyk]

Even if we play with balls, we still need Excelsior to play with balls, too...

That's the problem, see.

K.

[bluedaddy19]

Even if we play with balls, we still need Excelsior to play with balls, too...

That's the problem, see.

K.

exactly... we can't control what they do, we can only control what we do

so let's do our finest, then hope for some luck

frankly, i surrendered about 58% of my hope when we drew RKC (with lame "safety" tactics) and another 40% when cziommer hit the 3-1

[Monkey Tonk]

Options:

1) Send champagne and caviar to congratulate AZ. No connection to the food poisoning that kept out the entire first squad was ever officially established.

2) Start contract negotiations with the entire Willem II defense, with special bonuses for CL participation.

3) Kidnap somebody. Anybody.

[dws]

AZ use a 4-4-2 to great effect . They play with a winger (Jenner) on the left of midfield and a second striker(usually Martens) who takes up wide positions as required ... in other words, they play 4-4-2 in a way that is suited to players that normally play in a 4-3-3 formation.

okaaaaaay but we are not AZ :yes:

last 3 AJAX 442 league games: PSV, AZ, RKC

those who do not learn from history are condemned to repeat it!

4-4-2 in the 1:5 at P$V :yes: ..... for the bulk of the game. :D

RKC was down to HTC ... tactics were far too negative for playing such an opponent.

[dws]

Options:

1) Send champagne and caviar to congratulate AZ. No connection to the food poisoning that kept out the entire first squad was ever officially established.

2) Start contract negotiations with the entire Willem II defense, with special bonuses for CL participation.

3) Kidnap somebody. Anybody.

Answer to 3) HTC :yes:

[bluedaddy19]

4-4-2 in the 1:5 at P$V :yes: ..... for the bulk of the game. :D

RKC was down to HTC ... tactics were far too negative for playing such an opponent.

that is exactly what i said before: a 442 only works for us when the opponent is willing to attack us also

against any team willing to sit back (aka RKC, willem II, etc), the tactic muffles our attack

therefore, we must remain in a 433 against willem II for maximum goals

[666]

Three of those goals after the third forward entered the pitch.

4-4-2 in the 1:5 at P$V

[dws]

Three of those goals after the third forward entered the pitch.

4-4-2 in the 1:5 at P$V

De Mul :yes:

But that doesn't diminish the fact that we played a very good game up to that point. Also, goals 3 and 4 were somewhat gifted to Ajax by P$V's awful defending.

[SE6Ajacied]

3) Kidnap somebody. Anybody.

Just make sure it's not Ronald Koeman which would surely give PSV a huge lift. My maths always was bad but I didn't realise until after the game today that these results would leave us all on the same points. We're still in with a chance and (apart from that cup game) we always get goals in Tilburg.

We're still in with a chance though my gut feeling in AZ which I actually won't be all that gutted about - miles better than going to PSV that's for certain.

[dws]

4-4-2 in the 1:5 at P$V :yes: ..... for the bulk of the game. :D

RKC was down to HTC ... tactics were far too negative for playing such an opponent.

that is exactly what i said before: a 442 only works for us when the opponent is willing to attack us also

against any team willing to sit back (aka RKC, willem II, etc), the tactic muffles our attack

therefore, we must remain in a 433 against willem II for maximum goals

you can play negative with 4-3-3 and positive with 4-4-2 and 4-5-1 etc,etc . It's what you do within the formation that matters - not the formation itself.

We have produced some truly awful perfomances playing 4-3-3.
I prefer 4-3-3, but only if both wingers are effective.

[Blind3]

Another consideration : Find a high profile national team slot for LvG before next week and appoint RK the new coach at AZ.

Speaking of Rk , my football Sunday started at Schiphol . A Customs rep asked me , " Aren't you glad Ronald Koeman is coaching PSV ? He'll probably screw it up again today. " Turns out Mr. Customs man was right on the money . Then there was the beautiful highlight show shot of RK appearing to loosen his shirt collar. Must be his gag reflex coming on.

Between the above two events , it was 90 minutes of Ajax-o-phrenia/split personality...great play and shitey pay both...and scoreboard listening .What a great way to spend a day on balance!!

The first thirty minutes was amazing. Sitting in 113 , not far from those great Ajax-PSV '04 seats, and seeing Ajax at full gallop was ABSOFUCKINGLUTELY AMAZING. I've never witnessed a match where we could've been 5 or 6 nil ahead after 20 minutes but for Harald Wapenaar and finishing that was slightly askew.

Ditto the five man fulll tilt boogie , cavalry charge break out on goal 5. Great Sneijder pass, selfless play from KJH to feed Mitea, and Mitea's speed and accuracy. Perez and I forget the fifth player in support. BEAUTIFUL!

Congrats to Wesley Sneijder , newly crowned Ajax Player of the Year!! Well deserved. Today, When Ajax was at their storming best, say 60 of the 92 or 93, he was the straw that stirred the drink. Great freekick goal , great shot for # 2, great build-up for goal # 5. He too had a case of Ajax-o-phrenia/ split personality , but his highlights were terrific.

Match Observations:
1. Ryan Babel should send the Sparta #2 money to employ a psychotherapist and a grief counsellor. He must surely be traumatized. At least , send him a condolence card. He was walking about for the first half hour looking like someone , or maybe his career, just died. Kudos to Babel for his play for a majority of the match. And for winning the Talent of the Year award.

2. I liked Tom de Mul's effort on RW . Lots of hard running. I think that Ryan Babel was more the danger man offensively, but DeMul impressed me with his pace and his ability to beat his man .

3. Better day for Edgar Davids. Less possession lost. Interesting to see him at LB .

4. Interesting to watch Gabri at RB . Nervewracking too . Message to Henk: Leave George Ogararu in. He did just fine thank you.

5. The central Defense was downright offensive. Conversely , I thought Urby Emanuelson and George Ogararu were steady , 7's on a 1-10 scale . HtC, MvG, etc...PLEASE Buy two excellent CBs in the off season.Or turn Stam into the bionic man. My heart can't take much more of Vermaelen and Heitinga . The first goal , with Sparta engaged in Spray and Pray route one offensively and not registering a shot on until minute 33 , nice stop Stek(!) , was a disgrace. See previous sentence for thoughts about the second Sparta goal. Do the letters P-U mean anything? It looked like jailbreak , with Ajax the jailer leaving doors open and a getaway car fully gassed and ready . My grandmother could've scored their second...and she's been dead since 1996. Seriously, how the f*** do you not know who's been awarded a freekick? Or not pay attention at the very least ?

There was , I thought, a reason Michael Krohn-Dehli didn't play much for us. Not quite up to snuff I thought. He did his part for Sparta , but our backliners were Keystone Cop-ish. Micha had a great observation after the match. Tom Vermaelen definitely needed to take a better angle to several balls that were hoisted directly over his head.

6. The guy next to me came up with the observation that Kenneth Perez must be playing for some other side because , as he pointed out, he didn't appear to be playing for Ajax for the bulk of his 62 or 63 minutes. Not a great game from him , other than being the benefactor of Gabri's storming run and the peno that resulted .

7. The ArenA in general was louder than I remember it being on my trips, other than the five HUGE games I've witnessed : F-word 2002 ,PSV 2004, and three European competition nights. 5 of my 13 games to date. Definitely a positive sign. Hope it will continue.

Finally, it was great to get with the lads after the game. Cheers to all!
:xyxthumbs:

[Kowalczyk]

you can play negative with 4-3-3 and positive with 4-4-2 and 4-5-1 etc,etc . It's what you do within the formation that matters - not the formation itself.

Amen.

I will say it one more time, once and for all: 4-3-3 is NOT necessarily an offensive, 'positive' system and 4-4-2 is NOT necessarily more defensive and/or negative. The two really don't have anything to do with each other. It's bollocks.

Basically, a coach will have to choose a formation and he will have to decide whether he will play offensively or not. Two separate, totally different things.

Famous examples: Valery Lobanovski's Dinamo Kiev played in a 4-5-1, but they were very offensive and an absolute joy to watch. A few years ago Heerenveen played in a 4-3-3, but they were essentially a counter-attacking side.

The reason why HTC prefers a 4-3-3 against opponents of lesser quality, is because they normally play defensively against Ajax. By playing with real wingers you will force two of their defenders to spread out to the wings, thereby opening the defense up. In other words: with wingers you can lure two defenders away from the centre, thereby creating more space for yourself. But it's not a more offensive system in itself.

Can you please, please stop mixing these two things up now?

Thank you.

By the way: match report is up, guys 'n' dolls...

http://www.ajax-usa.com/matches/m06-07/ ... inish.html

K.

[DanK]

...
By the way: match report is up, guys 'n' dolls...

http://www.ajax-usa.com/matches/m06-07/ ... inish.html

K.

Just a small pick up here...I think the score is wrong ;)

0 (0) - 0 (0)
Eredivisie
Amsterdam ArenA, Amsterdam
Sunday, 22 April, 2007

[ZoefdeHaas]

, guys 'n' dolls...

K.

hey i just performed in that musical :D

i just don't understand why HTC is SO confident about winning the title, if he couldnt even get the team to win against the likes of RKC

[DanK]

...
By the way: match report is up, guys 'n' dolls...

http://www.ajax-usa.com/matches/m06-07/ ... inish.html

K.

Just a small pick up here...I think the score is wrong ;)

0 (0) - 0 (0)
Eredivisie
Amsterdam ArenA, Amsterdam
Sunday, 22 April, 2007

Much better :D
5 (3) - 2 (1)
Eredivisie
Amsterdam ArenA, Amsterdam
Sunday, 22 April, 2007

[Van basten]

ZoefdeHaas wrote

i just don't understand why HTC is SO confident about winning the title, if he couldnt even get the team to win against the likes of RKC

i don't think, that he is very confident, it's just psychological games now, he's playing. HTC probably thinks, that those talks wiil bring some extra pressure to AZ, but i'm personally think, that could work backwards

[Kowalczyk]

Yeah: everything HTC, Koeman and Van Gaal say these days is 'part of the game'. If HTC really is serious, he must be absolutely nuts. He's just trying to make AZ feel uncomfortable, that's all.

I don't think AZ will f*ck this one up, though. Louis van Gaal knows the drill. He's been there before with a group of boys that had never won anything before. He knows how to keep 'em calm yet focused.

K.

[Philippe]

Can you please, please stop mixing these two things up now?

Thank you.

very funny indeed :mods: :zuidema: :biggthumpup:

[SE6Ajacied]

Just watched the weekends highlights including the Sparta game from Setanta. That was a funny comedy moment for their second goal wasn't it :oops

I was sitting down pondering the maths if AZ win when I suddenly worked out their lucky number. Has anyone else noticed that their one title so far was the 26th season of Eredivisie and if they win this year it'll be 26 years after that....which gives them another go in 2033 :D

[bluedaddy19]

you can play negative with 4-3-3 and positive with 4-4-2 and 4-5-1 etc,etc . It's what you do within the formation that matters - not the formation itself.

The reason why HTC prefers a 4-3-3 against opponents of lesser quality, is because they normally play defensively against Ajax. By playing with real wingers you will force two of their defenders to spread out to the wings, thereby opening the defense up. In other words: with wingers you can lure two defenders away from the centre, thereby creating more space for yourself. But it's not a more offensive system in itself.

Can you please, please stop mixing these two things up now?

K.

ummm this was my exact point all along, i haven't mixed one thing up much less two

a 442 only works for us if the other team is willing to attack, i said this 2-3 times

good grief!

[dws]

you can play negative with 4-3-3 and positive with 4-4-2 and 4-5-1 etc,etc . It's what you do within the formation that matters - not the formation itself.

The reason why HTC prefers a 4-3-3 against opponents of lesser quality, is because they normally play defensively against Ajax. By playing with real wingers you will force two of their defenders to spread out to the wings, thereby opening the defense up. In other words: with wingers you can lure two defenders away from the centre, thereby creating more space for yourself. But it's not a more offensive system in itself.

Can you please, please stop mixing these two things up now?

K.[/quote

Ajax seemed content to hold the lead at 1:2 instead of pushing for more


ummm this was my exact point all along, i haven't mixed one thing up much less two

a 442 only works for us if the other team is willing to attack, i said this 2-3 times

good grief!

Ajax was content to hold the lead at 1:2 instead of pushing for more goals - that is negative play. That Ajax deployed a 4-4-2 makes it no more negative than if a 4-3-3 formation had been deployed.

[bluedaddy19]

Ajax was content to hold the lead at 1:2 instead of pushing for more goals - that is negative play. That Ajax deployed a 4-4-2 makes it no more negative than if a 4-3-3 formation had been deployed.

i dont believe my point was ever about positive or negative anything regarding AJAX... my point was that when the opponent is totally negative, 442 doesnt work for us

the 442 has worked wonders for us against AZ, Fword and PSV, teams willing to come at us

if were playing one of those teams, then yeah i'd say go 442... but not against a willem II bunker