Ajaxtalk

Once again we get punished by mistakes of our own system. Recycling the ball endlesly usually leads to the mistake. I don't care who makes it, cause Cavani was kind of sure somebody would return the ball to the GK.

The same happened in a corner we won. In less than 5 seconds the ball was back in our box...

well we played well for nearly 80 mins until their 2nd . We are very inexperienced but Zimling was ajoke,send him back to Mainz I would prefer to see Riedewald in future

Well the good news is the result from the other match went our way so the loss doesn't change anything. Shame we didn't manage any upsets this time out like we normally do.

An undeserved scoreline that saw a disinterested PSG gifted two goals (though they should have also gotten one other one). Ajax were much better in the midfield and had enough possession but could not move the ball into the final third with any regularity. The Klaassen goal was the only real shot on goal this evening. The young central defenders more than held their own and things seemed to be pretty well organized as long as there were not direct attacks from a counter. Apoel got thumped by Barcelona so a draw is all that is needed on the final match day to get Europa football (of which I am ambivalent!)

Player Ratings:

Cillessen (6.5) - one really solid save and no chance on the goals
Boilesen (5) - Hope that the injury is not serious but Andersen is at fault for giving him a hospital pass
Denswil (6.5) - did well and his passing was pretty crisp
van der Hoorn (6.5) - I give him the benefit of the doubt on Zlatan's goal and he did well several minutes later to dispossess him; no big mistakes which must be a first
van Rhijn (6) - should have done better with his deliveries but I liked him going forward
Serero (6) - a couple of errant passes but did finally move the ball into space
Klassen (6) - credit for the goal but otherwise did a lot of standing around on offense
Andersen (6) - really has to pass the ball harder but he has field awareness
Kishna (6) - great cross to Klaassen but otherwise tried too many tricks that didn't work
Milik (5.5) - worked hard but didn't get the ball in any position to do anything
Schöne (6.5) - really worked hard to get the ball and figure out where to pass it
Viergever (6) - good enough coming on for Boilesen, did go forward well and his defending was adequate
Zimling (2) - soft back passes at this level will always get punished!

Maybe PSG finish at the top of the group but I was sure not impressed. They defend reasonably well in the final third but their midfield is nothing special. Front line is great on the counter which seems to be the way they want to play football.

Agree with what others have posted. We need to have faith in the youth and players like Zimling should not play. One further thought, on my replay it looked like Zlatan might have been marginally off side on his goal. Probably too close for the linesman to call it.

I think I saw a shot of Boilesen on the bench near the end of the game. If so, I hope this is good news about his leg.

Just got back to hotel...feeling among many PSG fans is that Zlatan WAS offside for his goal...little surprised about the first as Cavani WAS technically offside when the initial ball was played as he did become active....

My thoughts...terrible decision to bring Zimling on; what was going wrong before that...? NOTHING!!! Some bad "top brass" decisions...good overall performance.....but as usual, nothing to show for it!!!

Europa League, here we come!!!

Manneken Pis schreef:

Tom_ schreef:A good goal but questionable covering from van der Hoorn

Does van der Hoorn cost us a goal a game in the Champions League or is it my imagination?

Difficult to judge.

Zlatan scores goals like these against the top defenders in the world as well. I think Van der Hoorn did ok.

Also look at the defensive play van der Hoorn made about five minutes later on the other side of the goal when he forced Zlatan to lose the ball across the goal line. Zlatan gave him a "well done lad" smile. We have all been critical of van der Hoorn in the past but as this was his first match in a while, I think he did quite well. His ball skills were quite good and I only saw one really soft pass across the field to Denswil that was almost intercepted. No complaints from me.

I actually like the guy. I said "questionable" because I wasn't sure if he should've been tighter on Zlatan, but of course being too tight is also not a good idea against a quality striker, and Zlatan seemed to get the shot off before anyone knew what he was doing.

van der Hoorn had a horrible run with own goals, conceded penalties, mis-hit clearances etc. at the start of last season, both in the seniors and Jong Ajax, and it made me wonder if he was just having some bad luck or there was a genuine problem with him panicking under pressure.

Agree with above comments on V d Hoorn.Watching the goal again cannot really blame him especially as Zlatan is a world class striker. Based on last night V d Hoorn and Denswil looked as good as Veltman and Moisander but have been stuck in Jupiler league.Last night showed these 2 should be playing Eredivisie regularly.

Moisander's agent says he wont be renewing his contract and will look to leave in January.I would now leave him
on the bench and given Veltman's indifferent form recently I would leave VdH and Denswil in for ADO.

Boilsen has torn a tube in his right knee and will be out for 10 weeks which is a blow but lucky we have a 4 week break.Viergever did ok last night and he will likely take over with Riedewald covering him and Serero at DM.

I will stick to my guns Zimling should be sent back to Mainz in January he has not impressed at all and Riedewald should be used if Serero comes off in games.Ok he could have made the same mistake last night had he come on but whats the point of having a 30 year old on loan who is no better than an 18 year old local kid.

Bazoer also saw action in the last Cup match and can fill in at DM as well. We could also slot Schöne back there (I believe he played some there when he first came over to the club) with both Kishna and el Ghazi on the wings.

I thought Ajax played really well, mostly the first hour or so. But they hung in there and to outplay PSG for long periods is an accomplishment in itself. It's incredible the resources (meaning money) they have.

Disappointed that Boilesen was only captain for 10 min. Amazed that VdWiel did not get a red, or even yellow card! Out at least 10 weeks I guess. Sucks.

Thought Serero played the game of his life! A real terrier and great first-time passing. He ran out of gas in the 2nd half, but what a first half! Not sure if he's the long term answer at DM but with performances like that he may well be.
I really liked Vd Hoorn! He played a good game with some very nice forward passes and won a lot of headers. Deserves a chance to play a series of games. He and his mate Denswil went up against a couple of great forwards. I think there is a lot of potential for them. Yes both these guys need more games and as SPL points out Moisander should not play anymore and Veltman needs to sort some things out.

Cruijff schreef:

Manneken Pis schreef:

Tom_ schreef:A good goal but questionable covering from van der Hoorn

Does van der Hoorn cost us a goal a game in the Champions League or is it my imagination?

Difficult to judge.

Zlatan scores goals like these against the top defenders in the world as well. I think Van der Hoorn did ok.

Ok, I'm going to be controversial here ...
Zlatan doesn't score against top class defenders.
He wins national championships virtually every year scoring lots of goals against the weakest teams, but always fails at the higher (international) level for club or country (won nothing in his entire career). What the English would call a "flat track bully".
Now don't get me wrong, I love his swagger, and I'm proud that he played for us, but the defending was no where, and Zlatan didn't "shake his marker". It was an error. And his not his first.

It was interesting in the interviews after Klassen was angry and upset they hadn't taken advantage and done more with the opportunity. Van der Hoorn explained how he was just happy to be there for the experience....

The British media do indeed love to call Zlatan a flat track bully. No offense intended, but I always thought that was just their classic parochial mindset: he's never played in the UK therefore he doesn't rate. I don't buy it myself, the guy has scored goals consistently everywhere he's played (even ~ 0.5 goals per game during his "failed" spell at Barça IIRC). The "doesn't score in the big games" argument is suspect because you can selectively apply it to basically whoever you like, e.g. (just off the top of my head) Messi didn't score in the knockout phase at the world cup etc. etc.

This is probably not very objective because I've always been a Zlatan fan...

I feel deeply ashamed by the way Ajax fans were treated.

Psg's first game was way off-side. It seems to me we could have won this game.

Tom_ schreef:The British media do indeed love to call Zlatan a flat track bully. No offense intended, but I always thought that was just their classic parochial mindset: he's never played in the UK therefore he doesn't rate. I don't buy it myself, the guy has scored goals consistently everywhere he's played (even ~ 0.5 goals per game during his "failed" spell at Barça IIRC). The "doesn't score in the big games" argument is suspect because you can selectively apply it to basically whoever you like, e.g. (just off the top of my head) Messi didn't score in the knockout phase at the world cup etc. etc.

This is probably not very objective because I've always been a Zlatan fan...

LOL.
I love him too as I said for his swagger.
I'm also the last person to consider myself a parochial Little Englander (more of an "anyone but England"er).
But his stats in the CL were quoted at one point on Tuesday night (Dutch TV), it was something like 15 goals in 32 CL group games, but only 6 or 7 in 32 knock-out games there after (against better teams).

Philippe schreef:A feel deeply ashamed by the way Ajax fans were treated.

Psg's first game was way off-side. It seems to me we could have won this game.

Yeah, I had to face my French (Parisian) colleagues the morning after...

Decided to focus on the "kids" doing quiet well against the expensive mercenaries who know how to exploit an error better.

Better luck, and referee next time.

Sensible ratings, from Het Parool :

@Phillipe - there was no off side on the first goal. Cavani was in an off side position at the start of the play but became on side when Lavezzi dribbled past him. Had Lavezzi made the pass prior that it would have been off side. The second goal by Zlatan might have been marginally offside as it did appear that he was a little past van der Hoorn when he got the pass but it was so close that it probably was an OK call.

Don't know if the ESPN highlights are available outside the US, but you can see all the goals here: http://www.espnfc.us/uefa-champions-lea ... dam/report You will clearly see that Cavani becomes on side for the first goal.

Highlights video can be found on Ajax.nl.
I see what you mean, but that's the way how I see it.
[Offside is judged at the beginning of the action :
Offside offence
A player in an offside position at the moment the ball is touched or played by a teammate is only committing an offside offence if, in the opinion of the referee, he becomes actively involved in play by:
Interfering with play
playing or touching the ball passed or touched by a team-mate
(...)
Gaining an advantage by being in an offside position
(...)
Since offside is judged at the time the ball is touched or played by a teammate, not when the player receives the ball, it is possible for a player to receive the ball significantly past the second-to-last opponent, or even the last opponent, without committing an offence.

Philippe schreef:Highlights video can be found on Ajax.nl.
I see what you mean, but that's the way how I see it.
[Offside is judged at the beginning of the action :
Offside offence
A player in an offside position at the moment the ball is touched or played by a teammate is only committing an offside offence if, in the opinion of the referee, he becomes actively involved in play by:
Interfering with play
playing or touching the ball passed or touched by a team-mate
(...)
Gaining an advantage by being in an offside position
(...)
Since offside is judged at the time the ball is touched or played by a teammate, not when the player receives the ball, it is possible for a player to receive the ball significantly past the second-to-last opponent, or even the last opponent, without committing an offence.

The pundits on Dutch tv (Van Marwijk and Mulders Jnr) were 100% convinced it was offside for what it's worth...

Well they're wrong ;)

The current definition of 'interfering with play' requires the player in question to be the ONLY attacking player who could reach the ball. Maybe Jim can put us right here, but I'm fairly sure the rule was changed subtly a few years back for this purpose. Check out Messi's 3rd goal against APOEL for another example.

When you follow the rules it is a "legal" goal.

But this off-side rule is ridiculous. When you pass the next ball to a guy who was several meters off-side a few seconds earlier you take a very big benefit from that off-side position.

Talking to my son about it he said under the current rules its not offside but he too thinks its a stupid rule.